The Nathan Barry Show

[00:00:00] John: I earn about $30,000 a month. I work about 30 hours a week. I have zero social media, zero paid ads. One part-time assistant.

[00:00:07] Nathan: My guest today, John Meese, is the founder of Sold Out Coach Club, and he has a seven step framework to becoming a sold out coach. I'm like super curious. Find your what?

[00:00:16] John: Find your target client bullseye.

[00:00:19] If you think about your target client as being like a dartboard, the bullseye in the exact center is your perfect fit client where you can have the greatest impact on their life and in return, they're willing make the biggest investment.

[00:00:29] Nathan: I think about this from a flywheel perspective as you're going through and creating these wins.

[00:00:33] The best thing that I can do to get more clients is to create wins for clients that are worth celebrating.

[00:00:39] John: When you're selling a program that's 2000 or 5,000 or 10,000 or $30,000, the reality is. Selling at scale can actually get in the way of you succeeding. Emailing thousands of people to click a link, to go to a page, to watch a video, to fill out a form, like we're creating a gap between us and the client.

[00:00:53] It's a lot like if you were standing on stage in front of an audience and you know your target client's out there, but it's not everybody. We want to find ways to find out who they are and then close the gap between us and them so that it becomes very personal, getting to the point where you're already sold out.

[00:01:05] Coach, this is where it gets really exciting and fun. What I typically recommend is for your very first program, you. Yeah, I like it.

[00:01:16] Nathan: John, you might be the person that we talk about the most on the show, so it feels like you've been a guest a whole bunch of times, but this is actually your first time on. So welcome to the show.

[00:01:24] John: Thank you. It's an honor to be here and it's also an honor to be like a, you know, repeat guest mentioned, even though it's my first time.

[00:01:30] Um, I do get texts or emails every time you mention me, like a q and a episode or something. So I'm grateful for that.

[00:01:35] Nathan: That's awesome. So we're gonna dive into how to build a sold out coaching program. Yeah. How to become a sold out coach. Yes. And a bunch of things, uh, related to that. I feel like maybe it's from craft and commerce, maybe it's from the sheer number of mutual friends that we all have, but you have had an impact on probably dozens at this point of my friends' lives in their, like building their creator businesses.

[00:01:58] So you're gonna be able to share a few of those stories, but just gimme the high level, like what is your story over these last few years of building up, you know, getting to the point of being a sold out coach yourself.

[00:02:08] John: Yeah. Well, I've, I've had an online education business for more than a decade now, so I've done all the things of like courses and memberships and books for years.

[00:02:16] I ran one of the largest membership sites in the world at the time. So I mean, we had, you know, so we've had a, we had over 25,000 alumni. We had 5,000 members paying $47 a month at one time. So you can do that math. Uh, it was pretty great. So I was the dean of Platform University is my title.

[00:02:31] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:02:31] John: Yeah. So, um, a friend at church by the way, got promoted to be like a real dean at his school, and I was like, oh, I'm a dean too.

[00:02:37] And he's like, ah, yeah, not quite. Um, but, uh, yeah, so I did, so I got, so of course when I, we sold Platform University to Pete Vargas, and so then I was on doing my own thing again. And the natural thing was a lot of people that I was working with as I was a fractional CMO for a lot of different mm-hmm.

[00:02:55] Online education companies that were doing from two to $20 million a year in revenue. And the natural thing was to be like, oh, you're like another Stu McLaren. 'cause you guys both ran Platform University, so can you like do membership stuff? And so I did that for a little while. What I found was that, uh, memberships are a great way to make recurring revenue, but they start upside down.

[00:03:14] Like you can be upside down in a house where like you owe more than it's worth. Oh. So you launch a membership that has recurring revenue and like day one you owe the full experience, but you're making like a hundred dollars a month.

[00:03:26] Nathan: Right.

[00:03:27] John: And so a lot of companies I work with, even at scale, really struggled to make the math work unless you have like a huge volume.

[00:03:32] And then smaller creators who have large, smaller audiences, like it almost never made sense to start with a recurring revenue membership

[00:03:38] Nathan: because you know,

[00:03:39] even if you got a great conversion rate, you're getting to like $207 a month.

[00:03:43] John: Exactly. And you're like, I deliver three coaching calls and create new training every week.

[00:03:47] And it's like, it's like a ton. So. That's actually what led me to learn more about a high ticket. 'cause when I worked for Michael Hyatt at Full Focus, his, the name of his company, we had a lot of high ticket group coaching programs. Mm-hmm. Um, so at the time, like it, I ran one that did six figures, that was like platform universities, like premium package.

[00:04:04] And then we had a whole dedicated team that ran business accelerator that was doing over $5 million a year. Just that one product. Right. And so like I saw it was possible, but I was really like the membership guy, so I was kind of not paying as much attention to it. Um, but then I thought like, wait, there might be something here.

[00:04:20] So I guess about 2020, like for five years ago, I started going all in and like buying every program I could on high ticket learning how to do group coaching well. Um, and then ultimately running my own program and then teaching other people how to do it, which is what I was doing. And so now that's like my focus is like helping you build and launch a sold out group coaching program.

[00:04:38] And of call I fall, I fallen in love with. It is like the core of a creator business where you can fund your lifestyle from one group coaching call. You lead once a week for 90 minutes. And now you can buy back your time. So now you can go create books or courses or memberships without having to worry about paying the mortgage.

[00:04:55] Nathan: Right.

[00:04:55] John: So you've got something over here. Um, so that's kind, that's what I teach now, is like to have that at the core of your business.

[00:05:01] Nathan: Yeah. What's an example of someone who you've, you've been able to help them go? Yeah.

[00:05:04] From. You know, maybe an individual coaching business or something selling digital products or, or that sort of thing and go to a sold out group coaching program.

[00:05:13] John: Yeah.

[00:05:13] So I think one example of somebody that I just worked with that was a lot of fun is there's this woman named Monique and she's in France and she's a vocal coach. She speaks English and French. Thankfully I can't coach in French. Um, yeah, yeah. My new, yeah, my new AI chat bot can do that for me, but that's right.

[00:05:28] Yeah. It's not the same. Um, but yeah, so she joined my program and she's a great example of someone who's like, she's got about 800 email subscribers. Mm-hmm. She had a one-on-one vocal coaching business is doing pretty well. She's sold some paid courses in workshops, so she's like eking by. She was doing pretty good, but a lot of it is like selling her time.

[00:05:45] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:05:45] John: Like all these one-on-one clients and it's kind of exhausting at a certain point where you realize like. How much more can I raise my rate? Or how many more one-on-one appointments can I take? Um, and so the idea is like, of course the, the dream is like to go straight to selling passive income products of like, let's just sell courses, right?

[00:06:01] Or eBooks where I don't even talk to the customer, you know, and we just make money while we sleep. Uh, and that is the dream. But also the other hand, like, that's really hard to do, especially when you don't have a huge audience. Um, so she's a good example of someone that we worked with where she joined Soul Coach Club, my program, and went through the process of dialing in, okay, what's the actual total transformation of what you're offering to people and turning that into a group program.

[00:06:25] Um, and so in her case, the 10 x Promise, which we'll get into it a bit, uh, for her program is unlock your signature sound to unlock your signature sound to become an unforgettable singer. Hmm. And so her target Klein are professional singers who are competing with all the other professional singers for the same gigs, and they're like not getting the callbacks they want.

[00:06:44] I. And she teaches, well, there's these five levers you can control in terms of how you perform that can, you can have a signature style, you know, like a John Legend or uh, or a Mariah Carey or like all, all these artists have like their sound. So you can learn how to mask these five elements that the outcome of that is you have a signature sound and now you're unforgettable and now you get callbacks.

[00:07:06] And so she came back to her audience with that offer and followed what I teach to say, okay, first time we open this, it's only five people, $2,000 each. And then she just launched her program, so she just sold out. So now she's a sold out coach and so That's amazing. Yeah. So it's pretty cool.

[00:07:21]

[00:07:21] Nathan: I wanna get into all the aspects of that, but it sounds like we should probably get up on the board and probably walk through Yeah.

[00:07:26] These seven steps to be become a sold out coach.

[00:07:28] John: Let's do it.

[00:07:30] Nathan: Alright, so we have these seven steps to launch your sold out group coaching program. Yeah. Let's dive in. Okay. You've got, I'm like super curious. Find your, what, where are we starting here?

[00:07:40] John: Yeah, so we should probably start at step one.

[00:07:42] Nathan: Yeah, that's good place.

[00:07:42] John: Yeah. So, uh, so the first thing to do is find your target client bullseye.

[00:07:46] Okay.

[00:07:47] So, I mean, everybody knows to sell any kind of product. There's typically sell amount of like who your target customer, who is your avatar. Um, but what I find is that when you're selling a premium program, like a group coaching program that's gonna cost several thousand dollars, you have to go further mm-hmm.

[00:08:02] To the bullseye. So if you think about your target client as being this, I mean literally like a circular target, like a dart board where there's these concentric circles. The bullseye in the exact center is sort of your perfect fit client, okay. Where you can have the greatest impact on their life and make the big biggest transformation.

[00:08:17] And in return, they're willing to make the biggest investment. Hmm. Now what happens is when you focus on that, the more magnetic your focus is on that bullseye. It tends to also attract people who are in these other kind of circles on the dartboard, where they're still on the target. But the bullseye is really critical.

[00:08:32] Um, so using Monique as an example I mentioned earlier. Um, so she's targeting professional singers who are already, they've already received some training before. They're already making some money as a professional singer. They may have songs or streaming on Spotify, but a lot of what they're doing is live performances, cruises or traveling or at music clubs.

[00:08:51] Um, but specifically it's like they're eeking by, they're not getting the callbacks they want from their dream gigs. Um, and they feel like they're competing on price with a lot of other performers. It's like, that's her bullseye. It's like that's where she can come in and make a massive impact and totally change their life with the group coaching program.

[00:09:09] Nathan: Okay. Yeah, I like it. But you're really, like, everyone talks about finding your target client. Yeah. And so when someone's like, I already know my target clients. Yeah. What are the things that are the flag to you? It's like, no, you, you've got like a target client, but yeah, like bullseye is an important word to you.

[00:09:25] John: Yes, it is.

[00:09:25] Nathan: And so how do you really hone in on that?

[00:09:27] John: Well, so how I hone in on that is to focus on intent over identity. So a lot of people when they talk about the target client, they're like, it's working women, or it's stay at home moms, or it's like, whatever that is. And it's like that's the identity.

[00:09:39] Mm-hmm. But intent is really what are they striving for? Like what do they want? Right. And that is more than 10 times, it's probably like a hundred times more important than identity. So when I say bullseye, that's part of what we're looking for is like, what is the people who they're already trying to make a change in their life and you're the natural solution they just don't know about.

[00:09:57] Um, and a lot of it's focusing on that, uh, intent. So for me, for example, like my target client are online business owners, but that's pretty broad.

[00:10:05] Nathan: Yeah. There's a lot of us.

[00:10:06] John: Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the bullseye is more focused specifically on like, okay, they're. Overworked, underpaid. They want to, they want to launch a sold out group coaching program that's gonna help them buy back their time.

[00:10:16] Mm-hmm. And so time is a priority, but also getting paid well is important to them. And they're typically already authorities in their space. The like inner bullseye for me would probably be like online business owners who are also nonfiction authors, but that's sort of like the very exact center of the bullseye.

[00:10:31] 'cause then you're the obvious authority in your space. And then the reality is books are,

[00:10:35] Nathan: you've already demonstrated the expertise.

[00:10:37] John: Exactly.

[00:10:37] Nathan: You've already,

[00:10:38] John: yeah.

[00:10:38] You probably have a framework too. You've done that work to create the book.

[00:10:41] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:10:41] John: Books are a horrible way to make money. So they're, they're not great at creating cash, but they're great at creating customers.

[00:10:47] Mm-hmm. If you have a way to elevate them.

[00:10:49] Nathan: Yeah. That makes sense.

[00:10:50] John: Yeah. Just my, just real quick math on that. My first book, I had like a publishing arrangement where, which did the math? I earned a dollar 25 per copy. But because I had a group coaching program, I earn over a hundred dollars per book sale on average.

[00:11:03] So it's like, that's a big, that's a, that's a great benefit

[00:11:06] Nathan: when someone's like, wow. What, what's the economics of a book versus something else you're like. Pretty good.

[00:11:10] John: Yeah, pretty good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:11:12] Yeah, that makes sense. Alright, number two, craft a 10 x promise. A 10 x promise. Yeah. Okay.

[00:11:18] So 10 X is really more about the idea of saying like a dramatic change, like the examples that I'm giving so far, we're talking about.

[00:11:26] So if you were to work with me, for example, in launch a Soul Group coaching program, it's not just like an incremental, like, addition to your life. Yep. It's you, you can't, you, you start as, you don't have a way to earn $10,000 a month group coaching 90 minutes a week, and then you end and you have that, and all of a sudden you're a different person.

[00:11:43] It's a radical transformation. Mm-hmm. Now all of a sudden you have a whole new future in front of you. Same for Monique, same for, uh, Mike Paccione mutual friend of ours. Yeah. Who his program is focused on helping you create an unforgettable signature talk that earns instant trust with any audience.

[00:11:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:57] Nathan: There's a Mike Paon story Yeah. That I want to get to a little bit later. Okay. Yeah. There's a teaser, but there's a fun moment from Cap and commerce that ties into all of this. Yeah.

[00:12:05] John: So, so, but related to that, so like originally he had actually had a program before we went through this process together, him and I, and, but his program was called Speech Club.

[00:12:13] Mm-hmm. And you're like. Okay. Like if, you know, Mike is an amazing speaking coach, it's so good. Yeah. You're like, I might buy a speech club for But you're like for five

[00:12:21] Nathan: It's all based on, uh, Mike and his credibility.

[00:12:24] John: Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:25] Nathan: And reputation.

[00:12:26] John: Yeah. But it's not exactly clear what should get outta that.

[00:12:28] Mm-hmm. And so we were together and we came up with that 10 x promise that I just said, which is like, okay, what's the actual outcome where you're a different person, you have a 10 x transformation in your life. It's like, well, if you can create an unforgettable signature talk mm-hmm. That allows you to earn instant trust with any audience.

[00:12:42] That's an asset you can take to physical stages, you can take to podcasts, you can transform that into an entire business or career change. You're a different person. And so that's where that 10 x promise actually becomes really the, basically the one sentence pitch for your program. But you're not pitching your program, you're pitching the promise of what's possible on the other side of it.

[00:13:01] Um, and so that's a big part of that. So a lot of that is about you. Ideally you wanna paradox or attention between what people want. Yeah, without what they are afraid of. So like, uh, Sean Blanc, another example, he was selling a mastermind program and he's known for like focus and productivity and so Right.

[00:13:18] So like that, those are good things, but it's like, what is the actual outcome of that? You know? And so we started working out. I was like, okay, we want to help people get what they want. Without what they're afraid of, without what they fear. So get the result without the roadblock is like the rough template we start with.

[00:13:33] And so his ultimately became, run your full-time business, working part-time hours.

[00:13:38] Nathan: Okay. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, because you get that little bit of contrast Yeah. In, in the title. Yeah. I mean that's something like, um, uh, Marie Kondo did a great job of this, the life changing magic.

[00:13:48] John: Yes.

[00:13:48] Nathan: Of tidying up. Yeah.

[00:13:50] What, like, that's not what I expected. Exactly. Uh, mark Manson does the same thing.

[00:13:53] John: Is the, it is the paradox a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah. Full-time business, part-time hours.

[00:13:58] Yeah. 'cause he, so actually going back to how step one and step two play together, Sean's run his online business for over a decade now.

[00:14:04] He's one of the OGs of like the blogging world, and he has a massive audience and a lot of products. And he realized when we were selling his group coaching program, it'd be tempting to try to sell a program that helps like everybody in his audience. Mm. But the people that he could have the greatest impact were full-time business owners, usually agency owners who were overworked and exhausted and we're saying like, look, I don't actually need to grow to the business anymore.

[00:14:24] I like where we're at right now. Top time revenue is great.

[00:14:26] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:27] But I'm working 60 hours a week. I'm dying here. Mm-hmm. I'm struggling with burnout. 30. Yeah. Yeah. And so then that's where it became like, okay, well what if you could run your full-time business? Meaning keep this, 'cause we're trying to find a sexy way to say like, keep your business exactly at the same level it's currently at.

[00:14:41] Right? Yeah. It's like, don't grow. Wait, what? Yeah. Don't grow. Yeah. Run your full-time business. And they're like working part-time hours and you're like, oh. It's like, well what does he actually teach? It's these productivity and delegation frameworks.

[00:14:50] Nathan: Yep. That make that possible. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a 10 promise.

[00:14:53] I love that. Yeah. Okay, number three,

[00:14:55] send hand raisers.

[00:14:57] John: Hand raisers. Okay. Yes. One word, hand hand raisers. So, um, I dunno if you know anything about email marketing, but I still learning. Okay. Yeah. So, so traditionally email marketing is designed for selling at scale. So you send an email to hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of people.

[00:15:15] Yep. And in that email, there's a bunch of. Text or images, there's a link or someone, ideally, you know, maybe 30% of people open the email and then some percentage of those people click the link.

[00:15:26] Nathan: Yep.

[00:15:26] John: And then go to a page, read about a thing. Some percentage of them click through the checkout form, and then some small percentage actually complete checkout.

[00:15:33] Right?

[00:15:33] Nathan: Yep. So there's a lot of holes in that. We're running a funnel all the way down.

[00:15:36] John: Yeah. Yeah. That works When you're selling at scale a low price product where like, you don't want to have to convince someone to buy your $10 book. Like you're just like, it's not a good math. Um, so in, instead what you do is like, that's, that makes sense.

[00:15:50] Right. Traditionally in marketing is selling at scale because it, that's what you're trying to do. When you're selling a program that's 2000 or 5,000 or 10,000 or $30,000, then the reality is selling at scale can actually get in the way of you succeeding. Mm. And so step three is to create, create a message where there's, there's no links, still an email.

[00:16:09] So this is an email marketing strategy. Yep. But hand raisers specifically, there's, there's no links. It's just a question. That's basically, I mean, it's a lot like if you were standing on stage in front of an audience and you know your target client's out there, but it's not everybody. It's saying like, Hey, raise your hand if this is you.

[00:16:24] But instead what we're doing is we're saying, would you please reply to this email if this is you? Mm-hmm. And that starts the conversation for you to then go through the rest of the process to also in your program.

[00:16:34] Yeah.

[00:16:34] Nathan: So what's an example of Yeah. Either a RAs or you use or one that one of your clients use?

[00:16:40] John: Yeah, so we usually start with the very simplest one. So there's plenty that are like long form, like paragraphs and bullets and like tell a whole

[00:16:46] story. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:46] Really get someone to resonate. But the first one is start with is actually a great way to test step two. The 10 x promise it, I call it the one of 10 x handraiser.

[00:16:53] It's literally, would you like to work with me to 10 X promise? Mm-hmm. Dash first name. So like, so like that's the whole email. Like so you sent an email to thousands of people. So Sean belonged to this. So he sent this email to like 35,000 people. Um, and said, and it just says, like, it just says, uh, the subject line is quick question.

[00:17:12] Yeah. And then he says, would you like to work with me to run your full-time business working part-time hours dash Sean? Mm-hmm. And it comes through and like we also like to put a lot of blank space between that and the unsubscribe. So like, yeah, it feels, you have to scroll down and realize like, is this an email marketing?

[00:17:25] Like it just feels very personal because we also usually put the first name in there too.

[00:17:28] Nathan: One thing that I do, which is a quick little thing, is often. If I'm doing that style of email mm-hmm. I will put a signature block in it. I don't normally do a signature block in my emails. Mm-hmm. But I'll put like the little kit logo and Yeah.

[00:17:40] Maybe, you know, I'll format that, you know, and it, uh, all of those details and the unsubscribed link is in with that formatting block.

[00:17:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:48] And it's got the address and then, you know, all of those things. And so it feels it has all of the cans, spam requirements. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. But it still feels like a one-to-one email.

[00:17:57] John: Exactly.

[00:17:57] Email. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we still wanna, we still wanna follow all the guidelines. Yeah. You know, we still do that. Um, but the biggest change is like, it's a pattern interrupt, right? So if you're in your inbox and you're looking through all these newsletters or in you're reading, you're clicking, you're like, yeah.

[00:18:09] And all of a sudden you get one that's like, Hey Nathan, would you like to work with me to launch your own sold out group coaching program? Dash John, you're like. This is different. Do I do I, I don't know, but 10 minutes ago

[00:18:20] I didn't, I didn't think so.

[00:18:21] So, and if you think back to like Sean's example, run your full-time business, working part-time hours.

[00:18:24] If you open that and you're like, I don't have a full-time business, you don't reply.

[00:18:27] Yeah. You're like, uh, no, no.

[00:18:29] Maybe you reply and you say, no thanks. Most people just don't reply if that doesn't apply to them. Mm-hmm. Um, but then someone goes like, well, yes, tell me more. Like, we're intentionally leading with the promise, not the product.

[00:18:40] Mm-hmm. So that they're likely to reply and say like, yes, tell me more. And so that just starts the conversation. This is also like just a general theme with selling a premium program is as much as possible close the gap between you and your target client. So when you're doing email marketing, like the traditional, where you're like selling at scale with like low price products, a lot of it's about creating a gap.

[00:19:01] We don't usually call it that, but like emailing thousands of people to click a link, to go to a page, to watch a video, to fill out a form. Like we're creating a gap between us and the client. Mm-hmm. But when you're inviting the top 10% of your audience. To say, Hey, you're my target client. Would you like to work with me directly?

[00:19:15] We want to find ways to find out who they are and then close the gap between us and them so that it becomes very personal. Um, and that's part of the enrollment process.

[00:19:22] Nathan: Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

[00:19:24] Okay. Serve to sell with one free coaching call,

[00:19:27] one free coaching call.

[00:19:28] John: Okay. Yes. Uh, I wrote a book on this, so I feel obligated to mention that it's right there.

[00:19:33] So, so, so serve to sell with one free coaching call. So this book is, I actually, that was the, that was my third book, but it was the easiest one to write because I've been teaching this in my coaching program, this, this framework for years. This is something where, I mean, a lot of people have this, they have like a discovery call or a strategy session or a free consultation.

[00:19:54] They have like a free call with your potential client. Um, this is a key part of the enrollment process that I teach, especially when you're getting started. There are ways we can talk about. Later, like when you maybe mm-hmm. May take this outta the sales process. But this is a huge opportunity if you follow the framework that I recommend for the free coaching call, where it's a, it is a high impact coaching call for them.

[00:20:14] It's a market research for you. So they're literally like writing your copy for you as they answer your questions. And about half the time, it's also a premium program. So I get over a 50% conversion rate for a 5,000 coaching program on the serve calls that I deliver, the free coaching calls I deliver. I don't give 'em to just anybody.

[00:20:31] Nathan: Right.

[00:20:32] John: You have to reply to a hand raiser and give me a clue that you are my target client. Yeah. And then I invite you onto it. And so for me it's like my Tuesday afternoons is like I have like two or three serve calls. Mm-hmm. So for me that's a great way to spend a Tuesday afternoon to have a couple of those calls.

[00:20:45] And then over 50% of the time people end up joining the program right there. Yep. So that's a key part of this process. But if this is also where we come back to the way that I teach this process, every step comes back to the other steps. So you think you know who your target client is and then you craft the next promise.

[00:21:02] As your craft for the promise. Like Sean Blanca as an example, he thought he knew his target client was, but as he craft for the promise to get specific in the transformation, he realized, oh, I need to go more narrow with the bullseye. Right? So he comes back and refines it. Then you send the hand raiser.

[00:21:16] Sometimes you send a hand raiser. And nobody replies. And that's a good sign that like maybe we need to revisit, send something in steps one and two went wrong. Yeah. Sometimes you send one, like I had one client, um, Austin Sailor, um, where he sent a hand raiser to his list of 3000 subscribers and over 300 people replied.

[00:21:33] And so it's like, whoa. So yeah, sometimes you're like, I think I'm onto something, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So we don't offer 300 calls. Just to be clear,

[00:21:40] Nathan: do you remember what his promise was?

[00:21:42] John: Um, the rough version, this is probably not word for word, but Yeah. It was, uh, earn an extra $50,000 from motion design this year.

[00:21:51] Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause so he teaches motion designers who do like, kind of like, you know, logos that move and graphics and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, and he already had a community about that. Um, and so his whole thing was like, part of it is like earning an extra 50,000 Yeah. Filters out people who are like, well I'm not earning anything yet.

[00:22:06] Yeah. Um, and uh, so of course there's also, because there's a revenue promise there, which just to be clear, you don't need a revenue promise in your promise mm-hmm. For it to work. But that's one of the reasons why he, it worked so well. He was actually already starting to sell this program before he learned about this technique.

[00:22:22] He was in a live workshop with me where I taught this technique. He sent the hand raiser like that day, and then on Monday was like, what have I done? So he, but he sold out his program by just replying to people. And then, I mean, usually what I do is the first time someone replies, I don't go straight to a call.

[00:22:35] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:22:35] John: I go, excellent. I'm so glad to hear that you're interested. Would you tell me a bit more about yourself and your current situation? Yeah. I got one reply today to that email that said, um, I am living and hunting. I was like, I don't know. What means does that mean? Yeah. I'm means what? That means I opening a loop that we're like, alright, yeah, yeah.

[00:22:55] So I'm like, no, I don't know what it means. So that's a good example of like, probably not my target client. Right? Yeah. So then someone replies back and they're like, I just need money. I'm like, okay. I mean, like that's, we all do. So like, that's not a bad thing, but like sometimes someone replies and they're like.

[00:23:08] Alright. I've had this course business for the last six years. Yeah. And here's how much money I make every month. Um, but I'm really struggling with scaling it. I feel like the core sales are starting to decline, and I haven't seen this cashflow crunch coming. And I've done one-on-one coaching before, but I've never cracked the not on group coaching.

[00:23:20] And it seems like maybe like, and yet they go to this like long, you're like, okay, excellent. Uh, I would love to offer you one free coaching call to see how I can help you. And so then, and that's the natural invite to be like, oh, great. Amazing. I'm giving you this gift for this free coaching call. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:35] And so then it's like, yeah, amazing. Let's do that. So out of, you know, 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 or a hundred replies, you're only gonna have a handful of actual calls. Mm-hmm. Um, and now I have an executive assistant who's trained in most of their replies.

[00:23:49] Nathan: Yeah. To, to get through from the hand raiser to the call.

[00:23:52] Exactly.

[00:23:52] John: So like the first reply is templated. It's exactly what I said before. Yeah. And so that, that's, that's just sent, I don't even see, I don't even see it. Like, and in this case now I have a hand raiser automation and kit. So as new subscribers join my list every couple weeks, they're getting different hand raisers until they reply to one, and then that first rep reply is from my executive assistant.

[00:24:11] So I'm only coming on if like that third reply is like something nuanced or custom that I might want to respond to. Oftentimes I'm only showing up to the surf call and like five minutes before the call I'm looking back through the notes of like, who is this person? What do they say? Okay, great. So this is the, the first thing that I do oftentimes.

[00:24:27] Yeah. Um, yeah. So that's the serve to sell with one free coaching call. Any questions about that or

[00:24:31] no?

[00:24:31] Nathan: That, that sounds great. Yeah. Alright. So number five, get sold out.

[00:24:36] John: Alright. That's what we're talking about here. Yeah, that's the theme. Step

[00:24:38] five, win. Yeah, this is critical, like getting sold out. This is where it gets really exciting and fun.

[00:24:44] Um, getting to the point where you're already sold out. Coach takes focus, but it also like, it is important that you start outta the gate where you have a plan to get sold out. Right outta the gate with your new product without having to raise the bar very high. Let me make that make more sense. What I typically recommend is for your very first program, you only take five clients and you charge $2,000 each.

[00:25:06] Okay. For a 60 day group coaching program where you're meeting once a week for 90 minutes with them, now that framework is wet clay. Like you can massage that and you're like, well, I really need 90 days. Like, okay, take 90 days. Yeah. You know, um, I have clients who have programs that are six weeks long and six months long, and so there's no necessarily a right answer there, but you have to start somewhere.

[00:25:24] And so if the question is like, how can I accomplish this to next promise in 60 days, in 90 minutes a week, those constraints actually make it easier to create the material. Um, but also five clients paying $2,000 each. Well, this is my nerdy economics background coming out, $2,000 is the average disposable income for a family in the us

[00:25:45] Nathan: Okay?

[00:25:46] John: So like, you know that of course, like that your market's gonna change all over the place. The reality is, no matter how big your audience is, even if you don't even have an email list. You should sign up for kit. There you go. Yeah. There's a plug. There's a plug. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you can find five people. Yeah.

[00:26:01] Who are your target? If you cannot find five people who are your target client, you need to change your network, change your environment, or change your target client. Right? Right. Like that's a pretty low bar. You can cap them on one hand. So $2,000, five people, that's 10,000 for you. But more importantly, you're a sold out coach.

[00:26:18] People want what they can't have, right? Mm-hmm. So part of this is about elevating your authority and your expertise by positioning you as a sold out coach by launching a program where I'm sure you're familiar with it. I'm sure many people listening are familiar with the, uh, adoption curve for technology.

[00:26:33] You know what I'm talking about? So there's like this small percentage of people who are early adopters for anything, right? That applies to coaching programs and courses too. The you're excited 'cause you're like, I'm launching a new thing. And most people are thinking, okay, cool, I'm gonna wait and see if this is still a real thing six months from now, right?

[00:26:48] Yeah. So what I do is I typically avoid any public announcement about the product until it's already sold out. Mm-hmm. So the first public announcement, the program exists, it's already sold out,

[00:26:57] Nathan: and the people are like, wait, hold on. How do I, yeah, you didn't even give me a chance.

[00:27:00] John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So then it starts to create people like, like Monique, the client I mentioned earlier, she just did this on social media.

[00:27:06] She posted a picture of like the first Zoom call with her clients and she was like, I'm so excited about these people I'm working with. We're diving into how to unlock their signature sound. Taking unforgivable singers, this is gonna be great. And this is, this sold out program is already started. Um, but if you're interested in being the first to know about the next time I do this, let me know.

[00:27:22] Nathan: Yep.

[00:27:22] John: And immediately five people DM her and they're like, tell me more. Right. It's like, and then that starts this process again. Right. So just to be clear, what I'm not talking about is building a waiting list that then six months from now you follow up with, which is like a bad strategy. What I'm talking about is.

[00:27:34] You announce that you're sold out, you start getting dms and immediately you're like, okay, well this program's sold out, but tell me more about your situation. And if they're a good fit, you're like, oh, well why don't we jump on a free coaching call? I'll give you one free coaching call and let's just talk more about your goals so I can better understand.

[00:27:48] Mm-hmm. And then on that call, you're saying, Hey, my next program starts in, in two months. Why don't you go ahead and pay a 500 deposit? And I'd love to have you start that program. And so actually the minute you're sold out, you're selling the next cohort.

[00:27:59] Nathan: Right.

[00:27:59] And, and then it takes all the pressure off.

[00:28:01] John: Yeah. Because you, you're not worried about making that sale, like you can casually do it. Yes. Because you're like, oh, I'm, I'm pre-selling this. Yes. This is, you know, it's not like, oh, this starts Thursday. I have to, you know, get this going right now. Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:15] Nathan: And so then even on that call, you're gonna have like a, you know, a level of confidence or calm in, in all of that, which will then come through to the client of them being like.

[00:28:25] Oh man, he or she doesn't even need me. Yeah. But like, I want this more.

[00:28:29] John: Exactly. Yeah. It's a lot like the posture that I teach my clients to take is a lot like an expert doctor, honestly. Mm-hmm. Like if you're sitting down, if you go to a doctor's office for a consult and you sit down, he's gonna ask you questions about your symptoms of what's going on in your life.

[00:28:41] Mm-hmm. He's not like, you're not gonna sit down, he's gonna be like, buy heart surgery. Like, you're like, what? That's just like he's just telling everyone they need this. Yeah. You're like, he's gonna be like, well no, I cannot recommend heart surgery or even the type of heart surgery until I understand what's going on in your life.

[00:28:54] Yeah. What's going on in your body? Let's do some scans, let's have some conversations. And at, at a certain point he might say like, you know what? I just like, um, I have a family member who actually was, wanted to go into, not heart surgery, but it was a, a knee surgery and was told like, you need to lose weight before you get that surgery.

[00:29:09] So like literally saying like, you can't buy this right now. Yeah. Right. And so it's like that's kind of the posture need to take of, sometimes you talk me with somebody and you're like, you know what? You're not ready for this program right now, but I'm gonna make some recommendations of what you should do to get started.

[00:29:22] Mm-hmm. And so I'll have people that'll come back a year later and they're like, I did the thing. Can I join now? You know, and like, they're, they're want it. Right? Um, and that's one of the powers of being a sold out coach is it elevates your authority. Here's the other thing I love, even if less than 10% of your audience buys your group coaching program, everybody now knows it exists and everything else is now seen through that lens.

[00:29:44] So, so I, for example, like I, I saw this program on how to become a sold coach, how to launch a sold group coaching program. Um, and the reality is, even if you don't join that program, every time you read my newsletter, every time you buy one of my lower price products, like my books, you're thinking about that as I've defined success.

[00:30:01] Mm-hmm. And so that you're thinking about the back of your mind and you actually get more value out of my books or my newsletter because I've already named like Defined Success like Sean Blanc, run your full-time business, working part-time hours. Like that's success. He's defined it. And so now when you're reading his newsletter or setting up, you know, buying his, his digital planner or going through his like focus course, you're thinking like, okay, that's the gold standard, right?

[00:30:22] And so you get more value out of the other products too.

[00:30:24] Nathan: Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Okay. There's a bunch that I want to come back to. Yeah. But before we do that, let's go to number six. Okay.

[00:30:30] John: Celebrate your clients. Okay. So this is the most effortless marketing to continue to get inbound leads. Saying, tell me more.

[00:30:38] So that you can become like a continued sold out coach that's continually selling out over and over again. Mm-hmm. Um, is to celebrate your clients, to get more clients. So this starts when you get sold out. Right. Where I mentioned like Monique Post, she was like, I'm so excited to serve these people. Like we're getting started, we're diving in.

[00:30:54] Nathan: You're celebrating the clients, but then it comes down to like, yeah. She

[00:30:55] hasn't even given them a win yet. Exactly. She's even celebrating the fact that they're in the program and Exactly. And that she's going to

[00:31:01] deliver wins.

[00:31:01] John: Yeah. But then the, the other content, so sometimes this means like you're sending a dedicated email or posting on social media for those of you that have social media.

[00:31:08] I don that. We'll get into that a little bit. Yeah. Um, but that means like you're sending an email or posting on social media about a client specifically. Sometimes it starts with the whole group and then it becomes a specific thing. Like, like I'm doing right now, like most of what I've told you so far today is me saying like, Hey, so Mike Pao did this thing.

[00:31:25] Sean Blanc did this thing. Right. Money to this thing. It's all celebrating clients, which is this beautiful energy that starts to get, people have a little bit of fomo. Well, they're like, well, I wanna be like, yeah, I wanna be there. I wanna be like that.

[00:31:37] Nathan: I want to have that outcome. Yeah. And I want to be celebrated.

[00:31:40] Exactly. And I want to be in this community of people who are achieving things like

[00:31:44] that.

[00:31:45] John: Yeah, exactly. So it's a different take to like a testimonial strategy because like, like I collect testimonials of hundreds on my website. Mm-hmm. But a lot of testimonials are used kinda in a cheesy way where people are like, check out this testimonial, buy our product.

[00:31:56] Mm-hmm. And it's like, this is not that. 'cause again, like this is where you're celebrating. Like, I'm just so excited about this impact we had on this person's life. And it's a really authentic, genuine way to celebrate people and to have this, and it draws people in. Or you get dms, you get replies saying like, that is so cool.

[00:32:11] How can I be your next case study? Right. So, um, so that becomes the core strategy. Now there are also more advanced ways to do this. So actually I'll come back to that though, because that's part of step seven. All right. Yeah. All

[00:32:22] I like it. Yeah. So celebrating your clients. I think about this from a flywheel perspective of as you're going through and, you know, going through this process, creating these wins, it just, it aligns you perfectly.

[00:32:36] 'cause you're saying, Hey, the best thing that I can do. To get more clients is to create wins for clients that are worth celebrating. Yeah. And so it has you completely aligned with your customer and you're just like, look, I'm just here to help you get a win. Yeah. Because that's how I make money. And they're like, wait, you only get paid if I get a win.

[00:32:56] And it's like, not quite, but I only get new clients. Yeah. Or, or my, my machine to drive new clients is entirely dependent on the wins that existing clients get.

[00:33:05] Exactly. Yeah. That's, you've got it. That's exactly it. And again, it's like everything kind of comes back, starts to build on itself. Mm-hmm. Where as you celebrate your clients, it's like you're getting more clear on which of the clients had the outsize results.

[00:33:17] Right. That's helping you clarify your target client bullseye, right? Mm-hmm. And so that may help you then clarify your 10 x Promise and actually the questions we ask in the serve call. If you follow the Serve to Solve framework, the questions we ask are designed to help you rewrite your 10 x promise in your customer's words.

[00:33:32] Right. So you're starting with one promise, but typically you've got so much in your head about it that the actual word choice may change once you hear how your clients describe what they want.

[00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:40] Um, and so then, and so yeah, it's all related. It all builds on itself.

[00:33:44] Well then, I mean if we bring in some of the principles of flywheels here.

[00:33:47] Yeah. Right. It getting easier with each rotation. Yes. And more effective with each rotation, then that's exactly what you're talking about. You're saying, Hey, basically I got someone identified target clients, uh, had the promise, got the hand raise. Then on the coaching call, I realized, oh, you know what?

[00:34:04] That would be a better hand raise. Or, you know, in each case. And so you can make notes of that. Okay, I did, you know, three serve calls this week. Here are my notes from it. Here's how I'm gonna go back and refine the target client. So you're getting more efficient, you know, in every way. Yeah. You're getting more efficient and more effective.

[00:34:21] 'cause on the efficiency side, then you're going to say, oh, I had the same email conversations with seven nerd. 20 people or, or in the example 300 people.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:32] And so you're like, all right, now I've got either an assistant for that or I've got all of the text expander things so I can have that conversation.

[00:34:41] And so yeah, you can handle, I mean, you can get all three, uh, laws of the flywheel of every step flowing smoothly. Uh, it can easier with each rotation. And then, uh, driving more and more growth with each rotation.

[00:34:53] Yeah. I didn't really recognize the flywheel layer to this until I went through Gear Program created flywheels.

[00:34:57] And as part of that, like, that was kind of my conclusion too. I was like, wait a minute, I'm thinking of this as step by step. But the reality is like you're circling back and kind of refining this as you go. So like a real life example of this Austin Sailor who I mentioned earlier, I told you I got over 300 replies.

[00:35:10] I didn't mention that over a hundred of them were people who were like, yes, I would be happy to be your motion designer. Would you pay me $50,000? Because he was like, would you like to earn an extra $50,000 as a motion graphic designer? And they were like, yeah, what's the gig? Yeah. He's like, oh no. Okay. I see how you got that.

[00:35:24] Right. Right. So then he just went back and he wrote the hand raiser. The hand raiser. On one hand it worked. Yeah. And then on the other hand, it, it, yeah. It wasn't what he wanted. So then he went back to the hand raiser for the next time he sent it and refined it. Um, obviously. I've said this before, hand raisers can be a lot longer.

[00:35:37] This is just the easiest example to talk about. But then he rewrote it to say like, would you like to work with me as your coach? Mm-hmm. To earn extra 50,000 of graphic and it changes the whole conversation. Three old words as your coach. Yeah, exactly. So, but that's something that comes out of just going through the process of going like, oh, I can refine it for next time I do it.

[00:35:54] So yeah. So most sold out coaches develop their own like private library of mm-hmm. Hand raisers, which, like I mentioned, mine is now in a kit automation. So new subscribers are getting that automatically every few weeks. And after they. Join my list. Right. Um, but even if you don't, if you have like a swipe file, it's like you can, it gets easier each time you launch it.

[00:36:13] Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so the last one here, number seven,

[00:36:16] sell it Scale.

[00:36:17] Okay.

[00:36:18] So candidly, this is where a lot of people wanna start because a lot of what I've talked about so far are things that don't scale, right? Like it's sending a, sending an email where you might get 300 replies and you might have to sort through that or having not a bunch of calls.

[00:36:31] But just to put some real numbers on this, on average, um, most people that I work with need 10 serve calls with their target client to get five sales in their brand new program. Okay? So usually that's the goal, right? So we're not talking about a hundred calls.

[00:36:44] Yep.

[00:36:44] I've given over 300 calls in the last five years with the surf call framework, but like my job is to like refine it, teach it, turn it into a book, and like right, that's that.

[00:36:52] I don't recommend that for everybody. Um. But the, the process of this is such that it's still things that don't scale. Right? That's a lot of what we're talking about here. Even your program itself, which is like limited to five, even if the next time you do a double double and you're like, now it's 10 people paying $4,000 each, it still doesn't scale.

[00:37:11] Part of it's by design, because you want to have this sold out limit where you, you know, people want what they can't have, where there is a real firm limit. Right? But you also wanna sell at scale, right? Like, so someone like you who, like you've Yeah. These two can be in tension with each other. Yes. There's a tension, not a contradiction, but there is a tension.

[00:37:26] Mm-hmm. Um, so step seven, we were joking about this before I got online. I'm like, step seven is like. And the rest of your life, you're like, it's like, because reality is, it's not as discreet as the other ones because, but really I think this is when we talk about it becoming a flywheel mm-hmm. Is because now all of a sudden we're talking about, okay, how do we build systems that connect all of this back?

[00:37:45] Mm-hmm. So that's where a lot of that starts as individual like effort. But then we turn into a flywheel and now all of a sudden it starts to connect. Where now, uh, when I'm on a podcast, for example, just pick a random marketing strategy. Exactly. Not that we're currently doing one right now. So when I'm on a podcast talking to my target client, I see you.

[00:38:03] Uh, so giving you examples of my 10 x Promise and other people's right. And then I'm gonna promote this podcast, and then I'm also gonna follow up with that of like, Hey, by the way. This seven step framework that I taught on the Nathan Barry show, if you'd be interested in learn, you know, would you be interested in learning more about how to apply this to your business?

[00:38:20] Nathan: Right.

[00:38:20] John: As a hand raiser, right? And then that's gonna turn into booking calls. And now, so because of where I'm at now, you can't book a call with me until you go through my assessment. Okay? So a lot of people make the mistake when they're launching a new program and putting a bunch of filters on day one, they're like, I have like a sales page and an application, and then an assessment and a waiting list.

[00:38:40] And the reality is what happens is then you end up like Sean Blanc. So he had 35,000 email subscribers and he's got a core business of courses and memberships that's doing really, really well. I mean, he was doing at this point, over $300,000 just in recurring revenue. Yeah. But over half a million dollars a year total between all the lower price products he's selling.

[00:38:57] Nathan: So he's, he's one as a creator. Yeah. He's one as a creator. Yeah. But there's ways that he

[00:39:00] can improve this so much more.

[00:39:02] John: But then I ran into him at Craft and Commerce and I was like, Hey, how's your mastermind going? As I saw he launched one, I usually am watching like you're seeing what everyone's doing.

[00:39:10] Yeah. Yeah. I have opinions, you know, so, um, so I'm like, how's your mastermind going? And, and he was like, I've sold one spot in the last nine months. And I was like, ah, that's super frustrating. Let's talk about it. And so we ran through this process. So what he did was, what was, he started with step seven. He started with a website to an application funnel.

[00:39:27] Because he's

[00:39:28] at scale.

[00:39:28] Nathan: Yes. And so he is saying for someone who's at scale, what, what types of things do people like me do? Yes, exactly. And we run funnels.

[00:39:35] John: Yes, exactly. So what, the first thing we did was we deleted all of that Uhhuh. And I said, okay, let's fight your Target client, bullseye Craft to Next Promise, send a hand raiser.

[00:39:46] And then he gave surf calls himself. Um, and then he got sold out. The first time he did it too. I also told him, I was like, I just recommend start with like five clients paying you 2000. He is like, cool, I'm gonna do 20 clients paying 4,000. I was like, okay. Like, so, so I was like, that's that's your prerogative.

[00:39:59] And he did that. Then he came back and he is like, 20 clients is exhausting in a group coaching program. I was like, yeah. So, so he lowered it, I think to 15 at five each cohort. Um, but still what happened was he got so much valuable data the first time he did that, that's how he was able to dial in his 10 x promise.

[00:40:13] Mm-hmm. That's how he was able to create other tools, like a a, a workshop that is specifically designed to nurture people for this. And so when you're selling at scale, like the full version of this, and obviously like you, there's steps to build this, but the full version of this is usually some combination of automated hand raisers mm-hmm.

[00:40:30] That are inviting people to sign up, not just to reply, but ultimately to come to a live workshop. Where they get to kind of experience group coaching. It's sort of like a free sample basically. So there's, this workshop doesn't feel like a webinar by design. Yeah. It's, it's designed to feel very much like you're on a group coaching call.

[00:40:46] On the call itself. When you get to where you would normally have the pitch, and I used to joke about this. I'm like, here's the part guys, you know what's gonna happen, right? This is the like $99 deal expires in 15 minutes. I was like, no, you cannot buy anything from me right now. And they're like, what? I said, you can take this free assessment.

[00:41:00] It's gonna help you, it's gonna help evaluate your business. And some of you're gonna qualify for a free coaching call. And so it's like, so I'll have, you know, uh, over a hundred people take this assessment. Mm-hmm. And maybe 30 of them will qualify for a call based on answers that question that tells me they're the bullseye.

[00:41:15] Questions they answer, I said, answers the question. Yeah. Yep. Questions that they answer that tell me they're the bullseye, then I offer them a call outta those 30. It might be that only 10 scheduled. And some of that's based on my availability. 'cause my calendar's also so I sold out 'cause I'm just doing calls on Tuesday afternoon usually.

[00:41:31] Right. For. There's three shot slots on Tuesday, and it's like when they're gone, it's like you can book the next week.

[00:41:36] Nathan: Yeah. Or the week after because you've just, you're playing with the scarcity

[00:41:39] John: Exactly. Where you're like, yeah,

[00:41:40] well, you know, yeah, we tried. Yeah. So then if you take the assessment and you qualify, you get offered a call and then you book a call and then there's a 50 to 60% chance you'll on the call say, yes, I'm in and pay $5,000 to become a client.

[00:41:53] Um, so like when you're selling at scale, it's usually there's an assessment as part of that that's filtering people. Usually there's some sort of live workshop element, um, or summit or something like that. But I like the live workshop. 'cause you can, like, for me, it's like I just have it on my calendar every month.

[00:42:07] It's a new subscribers when they join my list as they're going through my welcome sequence, which I position as a crash course.

[00:42:13] Nathan: Yep.

[00:42:13] John: They're automatically getting invites to like, Hey, if you wanna learn more about this, you should go to my free workshop. I'm teaching this month. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:18] Because I'm teaching every month.

[00:42:19] Nathan: Right.

[00:42:19] John: And so, but then as soon as you sign up for the workshop, this is a mistake a lot of people make too, is they're like, okay, cool. The workshop's in like three weeks. So until then, I. I'm just gonna like leave those people alone, like good luck. Yeah. But what I do is as soon as I sign up for the workshop on the thank you page, it says like, awesome.

[00:42:34] Add it to your calendar. And while you're waiting, I thought you might appreciate this, uh, recording of a training I did on how to earn 10,000 per month, the group coaching 90 minutes per week, and beneath that, there's a link that says, take your assessment and I call it the smart scan assessment, but that's not really important, right?

[00:42:48] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:42:48] John: Like, so some people register the workshop and then show up for the workshop, take the assessment. Like Joe Joseph Shoal was a client who I work with who he just, he just sold out his program. So he just sold out his first cohort, which is exciting. But with the way he joined my program was he, uh, heard me on a podcast.

[00:43:06] He joined my email list on the first, uh, like email that he got on the ps. It was like, I'm hosting this free workshop. So this was on a Monday. So on a Monday he clicks the link registers the workshop, which by coincidence was on a Friday, so it was only a few days away. But on the thank you page, he saw this video embedded.

[00:43:24] And he watched the whole thing. It's two hours long. Okay. So just to be clear, what it is is it's 15 minutes of content and then the rest of it is all me doing live coaching to people on the call who asking questions about it. So it's me teaching a framework like this.

[00:43:38] Nathan: And is this one

[00:43:39] call or did you edit together?

[00:43:40] John: A bunch of It's one that I did. Okay. So it was like a pri it was a hand raiser. It was like, Hey, I'm gonna host this. Uh, I'm thinking about hosting a casual q and a next week. Would you like to be included on the calendar invite? There's no click here to register. Yeah. They reply. I literally go to Google calendar and like add that, or my executive assistant does add them to the calendar invite.

[00:43:56] So I had, over that example, I had over a hundred people who responded to that were like, yes. So I'd over a hundred people, RSAP for this calendar event. I think maybe 30 showed up. Mm-hmm. You know, um, but then it was like a group coaching call. I was like, Hey, here's the framework, high level, what questions do you have about how to apply this to your business?

[00:44:12] Mm-hmm. And so it's two hours long of me just like coaching people live. So you get to see it. And so Joe, Joe Shoul, he watched this whole video. Filled out the assessment, qualified for a call, booked a call for me on Wednesday, remember? So he, he sent a final email list on Monday, Friday's when his workshop is on Wednesday, I guess that week I did a call on Wednesday.

[00:44:32] I said, no, it was due Tuesdays. Yeah. But that week it was on a Wednesday for whatever reason. And we met and he became a full paying client and paid 5,000 that day. So this is a subscriber that's 48 hours old. Right. And my first interaction with him was on call.

[00:44:44] Nathan: Yeah,

[00:44:45] John: I just showed up for the appointment.

[00:44:46] Everything else was, was a flywheel, was a system that was built, yeah. That I built.

[00:44:50] Nathan: Okay. So as I take a step back and look at all of this, there's one story that I actually played a small part in Yeah. Of a hand raise at Craft and Commerce. And I only as you were talking through this, that I fully understand what was happening.

[00:45:04] And that's like nine months later or something. What's Mike Ion's hand raiser story?

[00:45:09] John: Yeah, so Mike Pac, he, he was speaking at Craft and Commerce and we were talking about this coming up, but he was in my program at the time and we had just crafted his 10 X Promise and then I was like, Hey, can we, can I at your slides like.

[00:45:20] Can we talk about how do you use this as an opportunity to, uh, to make money, essentially like to run your business? Because I will say, he also told me beforehand, he was like, Hey, being on stages is great for business. He said, but I'm notorious at like being bad at like, what's the follow up?

[00:45:32] Nathan: Right?

[00:45:33] John: And so actually the year before he had spoken at Craft and Commerce mm-hmm.

[00:45:36] I think he did a workshop. Yep. And he told me, he said at the end of the workshop, I had a line out the door and people wanted to ask me questions. And I made zero money from that, like zero sales, zero clients. He was like, that's probably a me problem. I was like, eh, maybe, you know. So, uh, so he is like, this time I'm gonna be on the main stage.

[00:45:53] I feel like we should have a better strategy. So I looked at his slides. He had a whole like, bio slide of like, here's all the stuff I do. And I deleted all of that. And I said, here's what you do. It's your 10 promise. So we got on stage said, Hey, I'm Mike Paccione, uh, and what I do is I help you create an unforgettable signature talk that earn you, that can earn you instant trust with any audience.

[00:46:11] And so immediately, if you're his target client, you're like, oh, I want that. Right, right. Like, I want that a lot. So that's just his intro. Right. So then he gets to his talk, his great talk is good. That that's what he does for a living. Yeah. Yeah. So that was never in question. Um, and then he got to the, uh, a part where you would like, it was like towards the end where you would typically have like a lead magnet.

[00:46:30] And I think he did have like something you could download, but then he had one exercise where he was gonna teach, like he was gonna teach a story of like, how do you describe someone on stage? Like how, what's like a one sentence description of somebody else? And so, uh, I encouraged him. I was like, we gotta close the gap.

[00:46:44] Remember? And so I said, just have everybody text you. He was like, what? I was like, he's like, like a, like a like set up, like an email magnet or like a Texas number automation, like S automation. I was like, no, just put your cell phone number up on the slides and he did it. And so to his credit, right, so he got up on stage and he got to that part.

[00:47:00] Do you remember what his question was? Or like the prompts?

[00:47:02] Nathan: I think it was, how would you describe Nathan in one sentence?

[00:47:05] Yes.

[00:47:05] John: Yeah. So the prompt. Yeah, exactly. He was like, so he taught all these examples of how you describe other people,

[00:47:09] and, and this the phrases were like,

[00:47:11] yeah,

[00:47:12] it was written in such a way that you're like, oh, I got that.

[00:47:14] Like, yeah. It felt, uh, visually impactful or like, um. Like you understood their personality in this sense. Exactly. Sense.

[00:47:21] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:47:21] John: So do you remember what mine was?

[00:47:23] Nathan: You should say it.

[00:47:25] John: I don't know if I should, but Yeah, so, so like, he used me as an example in the stage. He's like, John Meese is here. And I'm like, I knew what he was gonna say, so I'm also like cringing already.

[00:47:31] And he's like, John Meese is the kind of guy who, he popped out of his mother's womb and, and said, looked to the doctor and said, I can do that faster. Let me get, lemme it again. Let's try again. So all about efficiency. Yeah. And I was like, okay, yeah, it's a little cringey, but it works. Right? You're like, oh, okay, I think I understand who John is now.

[00:47:47] Yeah. Um, so then, so then he said, okay, so Nathan Barry is the kind of guy who, and then he had everyone text him. So, uh, in 350 people in the room, I think 70 people texted him. He was overwhelmed on stage, like visibly going like, uh, uh, like going through the try to catch up all that. He's trying to read one.

[00:48:03] Its more boring. But they were great. Um, but that was like, that was strategic though, because then he put his phone in his pocket. Right. And so he shared his favorite example or two, and then we went on. So what he did then was he sent a hand raiser. So on this flight, on the way home, he texted back each person and was like, oh, that was a great idea.

[00:48:23] Thanks. This is my favorites, or something like that. Yeah. He

[00:48:25] continued the conversation. Yeah. And he actually, he would screenshot a bunch of them that came in later and texted them to me. Oh, that's awesome. And so I get, I knew he was having more and more conversations with the 70 people Exactly. In his target

[00:48:36] height to all reply.

[00:48:37] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:48:37] John: So, but then what he did was like, after a little, just like chat back and forth, then on like the Monday, he sent a text that was just copy and paste a template. This is this strategy I wanted to tell you about, like celebrating clients at scale. So he sent, uh, it's called a showcase strategy. So he sent a text that said, um, I'm thinking about hosting a casual q and a this week on how to create an unforgettable signature talk that'll earn you instant trust with any audience, which is 10 x promise.

[00:49:04] Would you like me to include you in the calendar invite? Mm-hmm. Right, and, and almost everybody was like, yeah, yeah, please. Sure. So we like, so then he outta the 70, he was like 40 or 50, he said yes, that he added this calendar invite. He shows up on the call and he is like, Hey, I'm Mike. You know that. Glad you're here.

[00:49:19] You know, and there were probably 20, 30 people on the call and he's like, I'm so glad you're here. I wanna talk through this. Lemme just talk through the high level, what it takes to create an unforgettable signature talk and what this makes possible where you can earn instant trust with any audience.

[00:49:30] And so he just talks to like a few key milestones of this program. He's like, but I knew it was probably better if you hear from somebody who's done it. So I invited one of my clients. To be on the call to answer your questions. And so one of his clients comes on and says, yeah, here's what this made possible in my life.

[00:49:44] I liked Mike's framework so much that I paid 5,000 for his coaching program. Twice did it again. They, they went through it once and then a year later they're like, I need to create a different talk. And they went through it again. Um, and so like, which is like great, like gold standard as far as that. And they just raved about Mike's work, just a live testimonial basically.

[00:50:01] And then Mike was like, yeah, what questions do you have for this person here? Like my client? And so the q and a was mostly just Mike facilitating it, of like you asking his customer questions. And then he was like, yeah, what questions do you have for me? And then he was like, great. He's like, well, he said, well, you know, speech club is my program and we do this together and we're actually getting started next month.

[00:50:20] And there's only eight spots left. There's, you know, 25 or 30 of you. But if you wanna be one of the eight, I'm gonna drop a link in the chat. Go ahead and just pay deposit. And then you'll be in. Mm-hmm. And so it was like a 500 deposit for a 5,000 program and he dropped the link in the chat and then he was sold out.

[00:50:36] So he sold spots on the call. Right. Um, and he never even told his email list about it. Like, so his email list doesn't even, didn't even know that cohort happened. 'cause it was just one speaking event. So one stage, one q and a sold out program.

[00:50:48] Nathan: So, and then later he can use that to go back to his Yes. His audience, you know, and say like, oh yeah, we're just wrapping up this sold out cohort.

[00:50:56] John: That was

[00:50:56] amazing. You will. Yeah. Next one. Well, that's exactly what he did. I think he actually had an email where he went back to his list and said like something like, I forgot to tell you. He's like, I forgot to tell you, I've been running this program. It's going great. Here's the stories. Do you want to know about the next one?

[00:51:09] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:51:09] John: Like, you know, um, and so it's, 'cause he has thousands of, he has a few thousand emails subscribers, so he didn't even use it for this cohort. So then he could for the next one you, I love that

[00:51:17] example of a hand raise. Yeah. Okay. As we wrap up, the thing that I wanna dive into is selling at scale. Yeah.

[00:51:23] And I've got some questions and objections about this. Okay. This feels like the kind of conversation maybe that we should sit back down for and dive in. Alright. Selling at scale, I'm thinking about the objections that I have. Yeah. I run a critter flywheels program, which you know 'cause you're in it. Yeah.

[00:51:40] Nathan: I'm in it. Yeah. The thing that I see in all of this is time is the biggest constraint that I have. Yeah. And so all through this I look through and I. I'm seeing, oh, this is gonna take some time. This is a call. This is these other things. I actually have plenty of money. I don't have a shortage of money at all.

[00:51:58] I have a extreme shortage of time. Yeah. And so how would you address that as someone's building to scale?

[00:52:04] John: That's a great question. Um, I think the reality is that, you know, you don't have to do all the things yourself, right? Mm-hmm. You know, like money can buy other people's time as you discovered. Yeah. As you built your team.

[00:52:17] Nathan: Um, the thing that's the most, what, what, I'm curious, when you look at the seven or you think about the seven steps, what's the part that for you, you're like, oh, that's the most time intensive. I can't imagine doing that.

[00:52:26] Uh, my first thought was the hand raisers. But you address that right. Of how you, you know, were automating when they go out.

[00:52:32] Yeah. And then the replies are, are really quite easy. Yeah. And I have a team, I think probably the, the one free coaching call.

[00:52:39] Yeah.

[00:52:39] And then we were talking about this a little bit, uh, off the recording, but we talked about running cohorts.

[00:52:47] Hmm.

[00:52:48] John: Yeah.

[00:52:48] Nathan: And

[00:52:48] then that's more of a time commitment because you're teaching something just to that co cohort.

[00:52:52] Yeah. And then maybe also doing something to a group afterwards.

[00:52:56] John: Yeah. So most people that I've worked with go through all seven steps. Mm-hmm. And then as part of selling at scale, they start looking for where can I replace myself? Mm-hmm. So sometimes that's training, like hiring a coach on your team who can do, usually you can, if you hire someone who's like, their, their skills are, are specifically coaching.

[00:53:12] Right? Well, the serve call framework is designed to basically be in, it's, it's a sales call that is structured like a coaching call. So you don't need someone who's like highly experienced and like. High ticket sales or even like tech sales or anything like that, you need actually someone who's a good coach.

[00:53:25] Mm-hmm. And so then all of a sudden you can have somebody who takes those calls for you. Those serve calls is what I call them, those enrollment calls. And you can also have them help in the coaching program. That could mean they're running some workshops for you. Dustin Reman is a good example of someone who, like, he has a coach on, he has two different coaches on his team, one who helps handle surf calls.

[00:53:44] So he does some of them, and then they do some of them. And then one who, um, helps run his program. So like he's on like every other coaching call, and then his coach runs the other ones without him. Mm-hmm. And so it's, you know, like having someone that he's, it's actually first it was a client when he went through his program, loved it so much.

[00:54:00] They're like, I would love to help with this, like teach this. Right? And he's like, great, can you take over these calls? And I just don't show up. So that's an, that's an op option, um, for sure. Is having other coaches do it. Um, I think the reality is, like, for you, the most valuable thing for you to be involved with is probably the delivery, especially for the more advanced members, right.

[00:54:21] And not the enrollment part. So that would probably the first thing if I were you that I would delegate, um, is just hire somebody to use the serve call process. So they're meeting with people and then, I mean, that's the most time intensive part is the, the serve calls themselves.

[00:54:32] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:54:33] John: But even then, if you're like, okay, if your program's $5,000 and if they can consistently have a 50% conversion rate, I mean, that's pretty good math in terms of like what that looks like for enrolling someone in your program with a live call.

[00:54:45] Um, also the reality is you're buying a program that involves an element of live calls and training. And so it's also intuitive for the sales process to match the delivery so that you're not, you're test driving what you're actually gonna get as well. Yeah,

[00:55:00] that makes sense. What have you seen for different models of this at scale?

[00:55:04] Yeah. Right. You have a different approach for your business, the constraints you've put on it. Yeah. Than someone like Dustin. Yeah. You know, than even what, what I might do.

[00:55:12] Yeah. Um, so yeah, so just real quick about my, my situation. So I optimize for lifestyle and so for me, like I earn about $30,000 a month.

[00:55:21] I work about 30 hours a week. I have zero social media, zero paid ads, one part-time assistant, I. And so like that's my situation where I'm just like, yeah, I just wanna do that. Like, that's right. Yeah.

[00:55:30] Nathan: Yeah. Um, so when

[00:55:31] I'm saying, oh, you could do this and that. Yeah. These other things you could scale to $3 million a year, you're like, pass, pass.

[00:55:37] John: Yeah, exactly. People are

[00:55:38] like, you should be on like social media. And I'm like, no, thanks. Like I'm good. You know, it's also just a fun hook to be like, it is a fun hook. I don't even use social media. Yeah. Everyone else is trying to play this game and you're like, oh, I actually opted out of that one. Yeah,

[00:55:49] exactly.

[00:55:50] Yeah. I've got other games I've played, but that one I opted out of. Um, but part of that for me is a season of life thing. Like my wife and I have talked about it. 'cause I've also been behind the scenes where I've run. I helped other people make millions and millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars.

[00:56:00] And I'm like, so I, I know what it takes. But our kids are all really young. We homeschool, like we're very active involved at home. And so I'm like, I'd rather spend more time there and I can make my millions when my kids are older. Right. Like, that's fine. They can help, you know, they're welcome to join the family business.

[00:56:15] Nathan: You're like, I'm gonna, I'm happy to settle for my three to $400,000 a year. Yes, exactly.

[00:56:20] John: Yes. And we're doing just fine. Fine. Yeah, we're

[00:56:21] doing just fine. Um, yeah, like we own a house in Puerto Rico, like, you know, like, you know, we're, we're doing just fine. But the other people like, so like Dustin Reman, who I mentioned a minute ago, so he's a different situation.

[00:56:30] His kids are grown. He's got one kid at home, but like, who's like. In the, uh, I wanna say the National Guard, like mm-hmm. Doing his own thing. Like he's a grown kid, otherwise other, other kids are outta the house. His wife is a full-time teacher. Dustin's got plenty of time. And so he's not, like, that's not, he's optimizing for a different stage of life.

[00:56:46] Mm-hmm. And so he came in, actually, when he started this process, he was actually a traffic engineer. And I don't mean website traffic, I mean stoplights and, and like tr like, like stop signs and, and tr traffic lights. Um, so when he started this, then he followed this process and he built this business to the point where he does over a million dollars a year in revenue and just sells his group coaching program and his master run of the backend.

[00:57:10] Mm-hmm. Occasionally he has like a hundred dollars product here and there, but it's just designed to be like a gateway product that's part of his sales strategy for his group coaching program. And so, you know, now he's got the seven figure business, um, and which is awesome. So coming back to like selling at scale, it's like there's a lot of different options here.

[00:57:27] Nathan: The showcase strategy that I mentioned that Mike Paccione used in that example. That's a great example of where you can't actually skip the serve call to sell. I would not do that until you've already had a cohort or two where you've run the serve calls. Yep. And you've collected all of that information.

[00:57:40] John: Exactly.

[00:57:40] Nathan: You find your hand raisers and your promise and your ideal clients.

[00:57:43] John: Exactly. But then you can use strategies like a showcase to just go straight to selling a deposit. I've done it to, a lot of my clients do this where, uh, we'll record like a, we'll have a pitch deck for the program with a video attached to it.

[00:57:54] And so the hand raisers become like the first couple replies and then someone, and then you say like, oh, I think you might be a good fit for my program. Could I send you some information? And they're like, yes. So again, this is all templated. Mm-hmm. And then you send them a video and it's like, Hey, I wanna tell you bit about the program.

[00:58:06] And you're walking through this pitch deck and then you're like, if you're interested, click here to pay deposit. I'd love to have you in. And so I've got some clients who sell, who close that way without ever having a call just over email with this video. And again, it's like the first time you do it, it's probably you're recording a custom loan video for each person.

[00:58:19] Yeah. And then eventually it's like you've got your templated one, um, shows you can sell on a showcase, you can sell over. Uh, email with a pitch deck like that. Um, there are also some people like TA more and Dan Martel that do a lot of like DM chat bots and that kinda stuff, like selling in the dms. I'll tell you why I don't.

[00:58:38] So I do find that there's exceptions to this. Like there are some ways to do it, like some stuff that Dan Martel and Taki more do that are more elegant, but a lot of DM sales, like selling in direct message, it feels like the new door to door of like, I'm knocking on your door. This is why I like on LinkedIn, like all the messages you're getting on LinkedIn or Instagram that are trying to pitch you stuff, it feel you're like, I don't know why, but I hate it.

[00:59:00] It's like the new door to door sales where someone's like knocking your door saying like, can I sell you a thing? And the reality is that takes away a lot of your power and authority as a sold out coach because you're chasing them. And so that's why I don't do DM sales 'cause I want it to be inbound. I want you to come to me.

[00:59:15] Nathan: And so we're now, but there's a lot of

[00:59:16] ways that you could do hand raisers through content Totally. And things like that. So then the, then the only people you're talking to in DM. Are people you know who have come

[00:59:26] to you, you well, exactly.

[00:59:27] John: Like the example I gave earlier of Monique celebrating her clients and then saying like, five people DMed her and they're like, well, tell me more.

[00:59:32] That's different, right? Yeah. Because then you're just respond to this inbound energy and you can maintain your position as a solo coach. Be like, well, yeah, I'm sure I'll tell you more. He's a bit on my program sold out right now. But tell me more what your situation. Let's see if it's a good fit for you.

[00:59:43] Yeah. Like I got, um, two dms at, I gave a talk and uh, at a newsletter conference last week about flywheels. And then I, you know, I posted a clip of that and then I got two dms right away saying, Hey, when is the program gonna open up again? That's awesome. You know, and that's, I. If I had a better process, I would, that's the time to be like, be

[01:00:02] like,

[01:00:02] um, well yeah, we're opening in April, here's what it looks like, you know, or, or that kind of thing.

[01:00:07] Yeah. There's a lot of, when you sell at scale, there's a lot of like, choose, choose your own adventure. Mm-hmm. Right. So like, Sean Blanc ended up, like, for example, this last summer, he decided he wanted to do a program that was like, I wanna say it was like two, a two or three day version of his like mm-hmm.

[01:00:19] Nor program that is normally like six weeks. And so like, it's positioning a little bit differently as like a summer camp kind of thing. And, and then, um, there's a lot of ways to approach that. Um, one thing I'm doing testing right now is like, I'll also will, uh, as during the hand raiser process. I've experimented before this, I dunno this consistently, but I've experimented with before, inviting someone to say like, Hey, I'd love to show you more.

[01:00:42] Could I give you a free guest pass to just be a fly on the wall on our next coaching call? Right. And so they're just like, they get to listen in to a coaching call I was already gonna deliver. And then afterwards they're like, that was amazing. How do I join? I'm like, it's like, and so there's, there's a lot of things you could do at selling at scale, but now what I've got, like the flywheel that I've got going right now is new subscribers join my email list automatically they're getting a crash course.

[01:01:05] So my whole newsletter is actually automated. So sorry, but if you sign up my email list right now, all the emails you're getting from me, I wrote a long time ago.

[01:01:12] Nathan: Well, you say sorry, but yeah, that means that you spent the time. Yeah. It's not like two hours before I had to get the newsletter out. Yeah. I like fired off something quick.

[01:01:19] Exactly. Because I was on a deadline. It's like, no, I spent the time to craft Yes. A whole experience. Yes. That is designed to get you great results. Well, and

[01:01:25] John: people will tell me they're like. Why is this one of the best newsletters I've ever read? And I'm like, because I treat it like a product. Mm-hmm.

[01:01:30] Right? Like I'm refining it. I hired an illustrator for every issue of my newsletter. Like I spent money on this and Right. You know, we built custom, uh, formatting and kit for like, being able to highlight, like, you would highlight a book, like highlight certain phrases and that kind of stuff. Yeah. And so you sign up for my email list every day for a week.

[01:01:45] You're getting an email as part of my crash course. That's this, that's, it's called the Sell Your Smarts Crash course, but it's, it's an email automation that's a welcome sequence that guides you through, like basically leading you to the inevitable conclusion that by the end of day seven you're like, oh, maybe I should have a group coaching program.

[01:01:59] And then at that point, elegantly, you get invited to this free workshop I'm about to teach. Mm-hmm. That's also automated. And then on the workshop, and also even on the confirmation page, you're prompted to take this assessment. And actually even in my newsletter after that, 'cause I have a weekly newsletter that if I don't write anything new, you'll get an email every Monday from me for close to a year.

[01:02:18] Um, that's just the next lesson in the newsletter. And like, you wouldn't know that. Like people will be like, I love today's newsletter. I'm like, oh, great. Which one was that? Which one did you get? Because I'm like, I don't know which one you're talking about. But, uh, the PS even I have it set to be dynamic.

[01:02:32] So using a, uh, a segment or a snippet snippet. A snippet, sorry, using a snippet and kit. Um, I've got it set to be a dynamic. Ps So if you have not registered for the workshop yet, you see like, oh, PS don't you do this workshop, you should check it out. Like, I'd love to have you join, right? If you've already registered for the workshop.

[01:02:47] Instead you see a PS that says like, PS would you click here to take the smart scan assessment? I'd love to learn more about your specific situation. Right? And then if they, if they've taken the assessment, then it's if. Based on are you qualified or not? So the assessment is how I determine if you're my bullseye target client or not.

[01:03:02] Yeah. So if you are my bullseye target client, you're gonna see like ps, I'd love to offer you one free coaching call and learn more about if or how I can help you in your business. And then it's a link to schedule a call. If you're not a good fit, you say, ps um, would you like to get a free copy of one of my books?

[01:03:17] Click here to share this crash course with anybody, you know? And for every person who signs up, you get a free copy of one of my books. Mm-hmm. Which is my rewards program. Yeah. So you're not told like PS. You're awful. I don't want you, you don't qualify. You're just into something that, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

[01:03:33] Yeah. So, um, so that, that ps automatically changes based on which actions you've taken. I love it. Yeah.

[01:03:38] Nathan: Okay. We could go on for a long time. Yeah. Uh, we're gonna, we're gonna talk more flywheels. Yeah. And, and all of that. What I wanna do is end this here. Okay. And then we will get up on the board and we'll rec and we'll record a breakdown of your flywheel and how you implemented that in some of the tweaks.

[01:03:54] There's some really interesting things, uh, that you've done that I want to, uh, map out. And that's gonna be inside the Creative Flywheels program.

[01:04:01] John: Ooh. So teaser.

[01:04:03] That's paywall. That's the paywall right there.

[01:04:06] Nathan: Uh, we'll give away an hour value and then

[01:04:08] John: wait. Lemme help you out here, Nathan. So, if you would like to see the behind the scenes video of how I use my flywheel in the Creative Flywheels course, then uh.

[01:04:17] Where can they send an email or comment below or DM Nathan on something somewhere? And tell me more.

[01:04:24] Nathan: Just email nathan@kit.com.

[01:04:25] John: Yeah, there you go. So that's a hand raiser, right? So there you go.

[01:04:28] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Um, and then you can also go to creator flywheels.com. That's where everything is.

[01:04:34] Yeah. Where you can ultimately learn more about it. Yeah. Sounds good. Um, John, thank you so much. This has been amazing. I've got a lot of notes that, uh, I've taken mentally. I've been writing, well, I guess I have been writing them down. Yeah. Um, but ways, you know, some tweaks and changes that I wanna make, uh, in my program.

[01:04:51] And then also, I just think there's so much that when people implement this, yeah, they're gonna have some pretty huge results. So people can't follow you on social. Uh, where should they go if they want to subscribe to your newsletter, learn more, more about your content, you know, or. Join your program.

[01:05:07] John: So you, I mean, you can find, you can Google me, I'm on the internet, you know, I'm not completely, completely off the grid.

[01:05:13] Um, but you know, I mean, what I'd love to do, this book, this lovely book has been sitting here, um, it's rather than say go buy the book, I would love to just give away copies of the book. Can I do that? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So if you go to serve to sell book.com/nathan, you can get a free copy of the book and so that's awesome.

[01:05:27] There you go. So the price is free. Uh, if you go to serve to sell book.com and you don't put slash Nathan, it's gonna take you to where you can go buy it. You can do that if you prefer, but if you like free stuff and you think it might be useful to you, then maybe start there. So serve to sell book.com/nathan.

[01:05:40] Sounds good. John, thanks so much for coming on. It's my pleasure. Keep up the good work.

[01:05:44] Nathan: If you enjoyed this episode, go to YouTube and search the Nathan Berry Show. Then hit subscribe and make sure to like the video and drop a comment. I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were, and also just who else do you think we should have on the show.

[01:05:58] Thank you so much for listening.