The Nathan Barry Show

[00:00:00] Nathan: You have probably the most interesting business to ever come on this podcast.

[00:00:05] Kristin: I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[00:00:07] Nathan: Kristen Flannery co-run, g Guam plucking a $1.2 million brand blending healthcare satire with public advocacy. You've probably seen one of her husband's reels. He's the face of the content with millions of followers, but Kristen runs the whole business behind the scenes.

[00:00:22] Kristin: He's at like 5 million followers across all the social media platforms.

[00:00:27] Nathan: What's the big goal that you're trying to get to?

[00:00:29] Kristin: I'd like to get to 10 million.

[00:00:32] Nathan: I would love to put together a roadmap to scale to that. 10 million.

[00:00:35] Kristin: Sounds good.

[00:00:36] Nathan: When you imagine a business at 10 million, like where's that revenue coming from?

[00:00:39] Kristin: How do we branch out from just us to be able to start making revenue? That doesn't depend on us actually showing up somewhere.

[00:00:47] Nathan: What I think you should do is I think that you should build an agency. There's three different versions of this. One would be we'll teach you how to do it. Two is done with, and then three is,

[00:00:58] Kristin: yeah, that's a great idea.

[00:00:59] Nathan: I get really excited about this because from the big audience, you could get 17 clients per this agency and you can double your revenue for your business.

[00:01:05] Kristin: That is insane.

[00:01:07] Nathan: But the big shift that I want you to make is,

[00:01:10] Kristin: I like it.

[00:01:16] Nathan: Kristen, you have probably the most interesting business to ever come on this podcast.

[00:01:21] Kristin: I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. So we're gonna find out

[00:01:24] Nathan: at the end of a little over an hour, people can tell us if they think that's true.

[00:01:28] Kristin: That's right.

[00:01:29] Nathan: So we're gonna try something that I think is quite challenging,

[00:01:34] Kristin: okay.

[00:01:34] Nathan: To scale your very unique business. Mm-hmm. To some pretty substantial numbers, right? So I love that you have big ambitions and all of that, and we're gonna get into what makes this business so unique. Okay. But before we do that, I think how you got into the business. Is even more unique. Yeah. So let's start there, like, rewind the clock.

[00:01:53] What got you into this whole world of content? What was the, the series of dominoes that started to fall?

[00:01:58] Kristin: Yeah. Um, so my husband is a physician and while he was in medical school, um, we had a baby, which is like not the best practice, but, um, we had one. And then about a year after that, he was diagnosed with testicular cancer.

[00:02:16] Um, and then got that treated. Everything was fine. Then move, moving along. We went to residency, that's what's after med school. And then had another baby in residency also. Not a great idea. And then fast forward four years after that, um, he was working as an attending physician and it was May of 2020, like it was Mother's day and we went to bed.

[00:02:41] And then in the middle of the night that night, he had a cardiac arrest in his sleep. So it's different than a heart attack. It's just like his heart stopped beating. So clinically he died.

[00:02:55] Nathan: Okay. Wow.

[00:02:55] Kristin: And I called 9 1 1 and did CPR for 10 minutes. Wow. It took a long time for them to get there because they had to put on all the hazmat suits.

[00:03:05] They had the shields, the gas masks. 'cause it was the pandemic. Because of the pandemic. Yes. Long story short, he survived. Everything is fine. Um, but. It really gave us, we already had an, an insight into the healthcare system through, you know, him being a physician Right. And going through medical training.

[00:03:23] And we had been married that whole time. So I got this kind of insider outsider perspective of I saw what training was like, you know, from the spouse perspective. Um, and then, you know, we became like patient and. Spouse of patient mm-hmm. Of some pretty serious illnesses. And so, um, we've had all sorts of horror stories about just like working with insurance companies to try to get them to pay the bills that they're supposedly supposed to be paying and trying to understand your medical bills, just all the things that go on.

[00:03:58] So, um, from the patient perspective, you know, we have that insight. And then just from the physician perspective, my husband sees the healthcare industry from, from the other side too. And, and the insurance industry from the other side of trying to work to get his patient's care covered. And, and so it's this really bizarre, twisty, very dramatic like journey through the healthcare system in all of its forms.

[00:04:25] Nathan: Yeah. And then he chose to, I don't know if, um, cope with it or celebrate it or, yeah. Coping Coping, yeah. In a very interesting way of bringing comedy into it.

[00:04:35] Kristin: Yes. So he has always had a hobby of standup comedy, like a pretty serious hobby. Um, he likes to joke that, like when he was in comedy clubs as a high schooler, he was like, should I do this as a career?

[00:04:46] But he was seeing all these, like middle-aged men, just like totally, you know, still trying. He's like, I went the easier route of becoming a doctor. So, which is easier than becoming a professional career. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, he had that, that's always been how he has sort of, you know, coped with hard things.

[00:05:04] Mm-hmm. And so he started making, um, medical satire, skits, um, about workplace dynamics within healthcare, but also, um, these experiences that we had that were, you know, kind of less than ideal. Right. Like,

[00:05:19] Nathan: like an idea is such a diplomatic way to phrase it. So then talk about the, the business today. Like what's, what does the audience look like?

[00:05:29] Uh, what does it scale to?

[00:05:32] Kristin: Yeah, so now he has, he started, um, I guess technically on Twitter, um, years ago, 2016. Um, but where he really like kind of blew up was on TikTok. Um, shortly after. His cardiac arrest, I think. Okay. Um, and he started doing these skits that were basically like the office but for healthcare providers.

[00:05:57] Um, and those really blew up and it was in the middle of the pandemic. And so it was really nice for healthcare workers to be able to laugh. Um, and so from there it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And now he's at like 5 million followers across all the social media platforms. Um, and then I'm at a measly, like a hundred K if you add them all up, you know?

[00:06:18] Nathan: Yeah. So you have this really interesting. Business in the, in the sense that he's the face of the brand. Yes. Right. But you're running the whole business 'cause he's still Yes. A practicing physician.

[00:06:30] Kristin: He is. He practices full time. Um, he's an eye surgeon, so, um, for him that means four days a week. Okay. And then he has one day a week where we spend, you know, doing anything that needs his face Okay.

[00:06:44] On the business. Um, and then we, I have kind of a sub-brand within the business. Mm-hmm. But his face is definitely the one that people know.

[00:06:52] Nathan: Yeah. Okay. And then this is a show where we love talking about revenue and goals and everything else. So what's your revenue at right now?

[00:07:01] Kristin: I think this year we're, um, or the most recent, I guess last year was 1.2 million.

[00:07:06] Okay. And we're on track for this year to do about the same. Okay.

[00:07:09] Nathan: That sounds good. And then there's all kinds of things that you're doing with this business. It's, I think sometimes people might see like, oh, okay, you're just, you're in comedy and so it's just about a laugh or Right. Or that sort of thing.

[00:07:19] But you're also doing a huge amount of advocacy work

[00:07:22] Kristin: Yes.

[00:07:22] Nathan: And all that. So talk about that side.

[00:07:24] Kristin: Yeah. So, um. That's another way that we kind of cope with everything and try to make positive change. Um, he advocates for change in the health insurance industry in particular, but the healthcare system as a whole, um, I don't know that you'll find anyone in America who's satisfied with it at the moment.

[00:07:42] So, um, we try to, to affect positive change there. And then I talk about, um, co survivorship. I'm trying to bring awareness to that term, um, which is the idea that like when a very serious illness happens to a patient, it doesn't only happen to the patient, it also happens to the people who are closest to the patient just in a different capacity.

[00:08:05] Um, but obviously, like, especially after doing CPRI was very traumatized and that was a strange, um, experience because even though it was his heart that stopped beating, he has no. Experience of that. Like he was completely, well, he was dead

[00:08:23] Nathan: and then he was, we'll give him a pass for not Yeah. Not remember or like remembering that

[00:08:27] Kristin: exactly.

[00:08:28] And then he was in a coma for a little while and then, you know what I mean? So he had certainly his own experience of like trying to understand and cope with that. Um, but there's nothing in society or the healthcare system that recognizes the other people in the room, you know, with the patient. So that's what I advocate for.

[00:08:45] Nathan: Yeah. Um, two very important things, uh, that, you know, society needs a lot of help. Yeah. So you have big goals for this business.

[00:08:54] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:08:55] Nathan: You know, if we could fast forward, I don't know, we could pick the number of years, but what's the big goal that you're trying to get to?

[00:09:00] Kristin: I'd like to get to 10 million.

[00:09:03] Nathan: Okay.

[00:09:03] 10 million in annual revenue?

[00:09:04] Kristin: Yes.

[00:09:05] Nathan: And what would that mean for you and your family and all that?

[00:09:09] Kristin: Yeah, I think it would mean a couple things that are really meaningful for us. One is that. You know, these horrible things happened and you can just let it be. Are we allowed to swear on this? Sure. Go for it.

[00:09:22] Okay. The metaphor I always use is like fertilizer, right? Like, you can let it just be a pile of shit. Mm-hmm. And then just move on. Or you can plant some seeds and give it some water and some light, and some thy, and some really beautiful things can grow out of it. And so that is what we're trying to do with this business.

[00:09:40] If he has all this attention, um, you know, we want to leverage it in a way that's going to make real, you know, beneficial change for people. And so having more resources available to do that would help us do that on a larger scale. The second thing is just for our family, um, you know, we didn't come from money or connections.

[00:10:01] Um, I, I was, you know, my family was very like. I don't know, maybe like lower middle class. His was kind of solidly middle class. Um, and so the idea that we could create an asset to be able to leave our children with and then, you know, let them decide what they wanna do with it, but, um, it just feels like, you know, bringing the next generation up a level, uh, would be really meaningful for us.

[00:10:25] Nathan: Yeah, I love that. And then what about like all of the impact work that you're trying to do as well, it sounds like. A platform is really meaningful, but then also, you know, the more capital you have, the more you can invest. Is that right? Yeah,

[00:10:39] Kristin: exactly. Um, I have like big dreams of, um, creating this empire. I like to think of it as um, where, you know, maybe there's a media arm, there's a maybe education arm, there's an advocacy arm.

[00:10:53] Um, and then we are also helping other creators in the healthcare space, um, make ethical healthcare content. And so that is all very expensive. Um, advocacy makes no money. Yes. So you need to have funding for that. And I would love to have like a nonprofit someday. Mm-hmm. Um. And it is, it is just a really expensive endeavor to do entertainment in general.

[00:11:16] Right. Like it's a hard business notoriously to, um, make real money in it's possible, but it's difficult. Um, and then, you know, the other piece that we do is education. And that's also not like a real, you know, money maker. So

[00:11:33] Nathan: Yeah. That makes sense. Well, I think what's wild is just the level of fame that your husband has gotten in the medical space.

[00:11:40] Yes. It's

[00:11:40] Kristin: absurd. You were saying

[00:11:41] Nathan: that when Radiolab did segment Yeah. They referred to him as the, the, what was the, the line that you, the

[00:11:47] Kristin: Elvis Presley of medicine. Yeah. Which is just ridiculous.

[00:11:51] Nathan: Yeah. So there's also a lot of interesting lines to walk mm-hmm. And boundaries that, um. You know, everyone has to have, right?

[00:11:59] Like some of us creators in the business world or Right. Um, you know, in some, it's like so many other niches could, you know, you can just, you can just say things,

[00:12:08] Kristin: right,

[00:12:09] Nathan: right. In your industry, you can't just say things. No. You have to talk about that more. Yes.

[00:12:14] Kristin: There are very stringent ethical guidelines as there should be for healthcare providers, right?

[00:12:21] Because they are entrusted with people's bodies and lives, right? And so they take that very seriously. They take the Hippocratic Oath very seriously, and that's not just within the operating room, that's within their entire life as a whole, right? So anytime there is public facing anything in healthcare.

[00:12:41] You have to be very careful about how you go about doing that. You don't want to, um, violate patient privacy, obviously. Um, and you don't want to do anything that would erode the trust that's required for a physician patient relationship. And that includes what you do and say online.

[00:13:02] Nathan: Yep. Yeah. What might just be a funny TikTok or Instagram reel could have serious consequences.

[00:13:07] Right. And either reputation or legally, or

[00:13:11] Kristin: empathy. Yeah. And even just like two patients, like one of my husband's biggest rules is. You never punch down, you know, you don't make fun of patients. Right. There is, you can make fun of you, make fun of each other. You can make fun of, you know, the higher ups, the provider,

[00:13:23] Nathan: the, uh, the insurance I industry for sure.

[00:13:26] Kristin: Yeah. Uh, but never, ever patience. That is not something you fun of. Even though

[00:13:31] Nathan: you might have, like, he probably has all kinds of ideas for something like that's cheat shots, funny thing happens and all that cheat shots, but Yeah. And you're like, I think those clear boundaries make a lot of sense.

[00:13:40] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:13:41] Nathan: Well, I think you're doing some pretty amazing work. Thank you. And I would love to see what we can do in the next hour or two.

[00:13:47] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:13:48] Nathan: Uh, put together a roadmap to scale to that 10 million.

[00:13:50] Kristin: Sounds good.

[00:13:51] Nathan: All right. Let's jump up to the board. All

[00:13:52] Kristin: right.

[00:13:53] Nathan: Okay. So what I wanna do is, when we were talking before, you're doing a lot of different things.

[00:14:01] Yes. So that 1.2 million. Comes from a lot of activities. I thought we might just start by you telling me all the things you're doing. Okay. And I'll write them down and we'll see it all in one place.

[00:14:12] Kristin: Okay. I hope I can remember all of it. Okay. So we have a podcast.

[00:14:16] Nathan: Okay.

[00:14:17] Kristin: Um, and it's pretty big. It's, right now we're at like top two to 4% globally, so like not too shabby.

[00:14:25] Um, we have a newsletter. Um, the main thing is obviously his skits, which are, um, videos. They're shorts. We have a live stage show based on our life story.

[00:14:38] Nathan: Yep. As one does. As

[00:14:40] Kristin: one, does we, what else do we have? I am working on a book.

[00:14:45] Nathan: Okay. Another easy endeavor.

[00:14:48] Kristin: Yes. We did a little, uh, animated web series.

[00:14:54] Based on his, uh, characters and his skits, like just to kind of, we'll try that out, see how it goes. We do a lot of keynote speaking. Okay. He does some individually. I do some individually and we do some together. And then, um, we have a couple new things that we are, um, working on right now, which is, um, some licensing of his, um, certain frameworks based on his content.

[00:15:19] And then, um, we are working on a project, um, in partnership with our production company that does our podcast, um, to enable other full-time healthcare providers to create ethical, accurate healthcare content on social media.

[00:15:36] Nathan: Okay. And so that's a joint venture? It's a joint

[00:15:38] Kristin: venture, yes. Okay. And I feel like I'm missing one or two, but I think that's, that's the gist of it.

[00:15:44] Nathan: And you have sponsorships as well?

[00:15:46] Kristin: Yep. Our podcast, our keynote, our newsletter. Right. The show.

[00:15:51] Nathan: And so you do all of this and then there's also like a full-time medical practice and two kids?

[00:15:55] Kristin: Yes. Okay.

[00:15:56] Nathan: You feel busy

[00:15:57] Kristin: a little. Okay. I can't,

[00:15:58] Nathan: I can't tell why.

[00:16:00] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:16:02] Nathan: This is a lot of individual things which I can relate to.

[00:16:05] I'm the kind of person who does, I try to do absolutely everything. Yeah. Like the people are like, I'm a minimalist, and I'm like, I'm a maximalist. Me.

[00:16:13] Kristin: Yes. I think we are. I mean, because it's fun. A lot of these are like creative challenges. Mm-hmm. And they're fun to do. Um, but yes, we are just a very small team and, uh, there's only so many hours in a day, so.

[00:16:25] Nathan: Right. Okay. So if we were to think about the ones that are, like the things that are the most important, right? Yeah. Because when we list them like this, they're all equal size. Yes. But they're not actually all equal size. Right. In terms

[00:16:38] Kristin: of how much we love them, they're all our children and we love them equally.

[00:16:42] Exactly. But in terms of like revenue and scale, maybe not.

[00:16:44] Nathan: Well, I'm curious to annotate it in two ways and I'll let you decide how to annotate it, but I want to know which ones take the most time and which ones take the most, uh, or make the most money.

[00:16:54] Kristin: Okay.

[00:16:54] Nathan: So, I don't know, maybe draw a little clock on the, the two that take the most time next to it.

[00:16:59] Okay. Yeah. And then we'll do a dollar sign on the ones that make the most money. Ugh. What time are you gonna choose the most? I don't know. I guess I chose

[00:17:06] Kristin: 1 55. Um, okay. All right. One more that takes probably this one.

[00:17:21] Nathan: Yeah, that makes sense. That the skits take a lot of time. Yes. Okay. It's the same time on

[00:17:26] Kristin: it is I, I'm consistent.

[00:17:28] Nathan: Yes, exactly. Okay. This is helpful to see at a, at a glance, right? So the podcast in the skits. They both take a lot of time.

[00:17:34] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:17:35] Nathan: The keynotes and sponsorships both make the most money.

[00:17:37] Kristin: Yes.

[00:17:37] Nathan: One thing that stands out to me is that there's no,

[00:17:39] Kristin: not the same things I know. Well, the sponsorships actually do go with the podcast.

[00:17:45] Yeah. Those are,

[00:17:46] Nathan: and the other thing to the skits are the core driver of the entire business.

[00:17:51] Kristin: Yes, that's right. Right.

[00:17:52] Nathan: That's a, that's a key thing

[00:17:54] Kristin: of like, that's the foundation of the whole thing.

[00:17:55] Nathan: If I were to, you know, if you were to stop doing, you know, pretty much anything else on this, you, you couldn't stop doing the skates.

[00:18:02] Right? Yeah. So I'm just gonna underline and we're gonna put a box around this because it's so important. Yes. Okay. That's super helpful. It's also impressive that the core thing, while it does take a lot of time, your husband is doing this in one day a week.

[00:18:18] Kristin: Yeah. Few evenings and weekends. Yeah. Here and there.

[00:18:21] But yeah,

[00:18:22] Nathan: so even all that, you know, you're driving the core attention for a over a million dollar a year business. Yeah. In. Call it 10 hours, 12 hours a week, something like that. Right? Yeah.

[00:18:33] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:18:34] Nathan: Um, which is, which is impressive. Okay. Now, what I'm curious about, if you had to get rid of one of these and just stop doing it, what would it be?

[00:18:43] We're not actually gonna make you Yeah. You know, put one of your kids up for adoptions live on the show. Right. But

[00:18:49] Kristin: I'm just

[00:18:50] Nathan: curious if one stands out.

[00:18:52] Kristin: Oh. Um, where I'm leaning right now is the animated web series. Just because like, that is still, we we're gonna see where it goes. Like still it's an experiment.

[00:19:04] We It's an experiment. Yeah. And we're at the beginning, we don't know how it's gonna go. So, um, if that, it, like, it has a lot of potential Right. To make a lot of revenue, but it's high risk. Like we don't know that it's going to.

[00:19:15] Nathan: Yep. Okay. That makes sense. Um, I am going to put, how are we gonna do this? We're gonna do a little question mark in a circle, just like that's the one that's unknown.

[00:19:25] Kristin: Okay.

[00:19:26] Nathan: Alright, now let's talk team.

[00:19:29] Kristin: Okay.

[00:19:30] Nathan: So at, uh, you know, over a million in revenue, you have some money to hire a team and, and work with other individuals. Um, what does the team look like right now?

[00:19:39] Kristin: So my husband and I are, um, co-founders. Mm-hmm. And I work full-time on the business, although I do work from home and I do have two children, and we're in the stage where I have to drive them lots of places.

[00:19:53] Oh man. Yes. So it's very like, hit or miss in terms of how many hours I get, um, each week, but yep, full-time. And then we have one full-time, like W2 employee. Okay.

[00:20:06] Nathan: Who and what do they do?

[00:20:08] Kristin: They, um, right now they kind of do everything, but they're basically like our ops person. Yeah. Um, and they also have a PhD in curriculum and instruction.

[00:20:19] And so we brought them on because we, we have some educational projects that we would like to be able to do. Okay. And then we have, uh, we partner with a production company for our podcast. Um, the joint venture, the show, uh, sponsorships, they help us, that they help with our keynotes, booking and whatnot.

[00:20:42] They are three full-time people and then they have like contractors. Okay. Um, and we use some contractors, probably like five or six. Okay. It's all one company, but like within that company there's five or six different people.

[00:20:59] Nathan: That's helpful to know. Um, if you could make like one key dream hire right now.

[00:21:04] Data. Data, yes. Say. What would they do?

[00:21:10] Kristin: We have five years worth of content to mine. Um, we, we have never, because we like didn't mean to start a business, it just sort of Yep. Happened. And so we didn't like start out with all the systems in place that are smart to start with and, and we're having to like, work backwards to kind of fill in those gaps.

[00:21:30] And so, um, we've plugged the holes that we're like gonna sink the boat and now we are moving into, okay, now we can do the ones that are like, not necessarily gonna kill anything if we don't have them, but are very important. And so data, um, I would like someone to be like, making sure that we're collecting it, looking at it, using it to inform our decisions, keeping up the, you know, good data hygiene.

[00:21:55] Um, looking at how different things might influence each other. Attribution, tracking all that good stuff. Okay. Like, I'd like to be able to do a lot more of that.

[00:22:03] Nathan: And what would that enable you to do?

[00:22:06] Kristin: Stop flying by the seat of our pants. Right? Like we're, we're going on like intuition up till now. Yeah. And so having the data to actually like see what our numbers are and how things affect each other or, you know, with the experiments, like Right, how are they going?

[00:22:25] We don't know. So like all we can judge by is like comments and views. Um, so I'd like to be able to look at things a lot more granularly just across the board. I mean,

[00:22:37] Nathan: are you getting into, you know, on YouTube videos and all of that, you're looking at retention graphs than

[00:22:42] Kristin: A little bit, but just like time-wise it's hard to, that's one of the things that's always like, on the list, but it's never the fire, so it's hard.

[00:22:51] That's why I'd like, you know, a dedicated person to be able, like that's just part of what they do every day. Okay. That would be amazing.

[00:22:57] Nathan: That's interesting. I think you would, to make this hire successful, you would need to get much more specific about what type of. Data because that might be like saying, I need a doctor.

[00:23:09] Kristin: Yeah. Right. And like, oh, okay.

[00:23:12] Nathan: It's a very broad category. Right. You know? Exactly. Like, tell me what we've got going on here.

[00:23:16] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:23:16] Nathan: Uh, because it's gonna be a different type of person that is going to deep dive in YouTube and content and what's working, what's talent. Right. From someone who's gonna be like, Hey, here's your business analytics.

[00:23:26] Kristin: I know. And it then it's like eight hires, right. 'cause you need like a YouTube, an Instagram, a Facebook, you know, like all the different sources of data. Yeah. If you have to get that specialized, like that's definitely

[00:23:39] Nathan: my gut feeling more overwhelming is that a contractor could do this really well for you.

[00:23:43] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:23:43] Nathan: Because I think that it's something that someone could come in and monthly or quarterly we an audit for you and be like, this is what's going on. This

[00:23:51] Kristin: is what's working. Okay.

[00:23:52] Nathan: Um, and that probably a higher that you make actually needs to be revenue generating or you know, wherever. For sure, wherever we're scaling.

[00:24:02] So we, we can dive into that more later. All right. So 10 million.

[00:24:06] Kristin: Yes.

[00:24:06] Nathan: As we're going to that number, what are the things, when you imagine a business at 10 million, what are the things that you think, like, where's that revenue coming from? What are, what are the ideas that you like, oh, this could add, I dunno, at least two, three, 4 million or something.

[00:24:22] You get that? Yeah.

[00:24:23] Kristin: I think, you know, everything that we have done thus far has required our faces or our presence or Yep. You know, it, it has to come directly from us in some way. Um, it would be, I think the next step we've been thinking about is how do we, how do we branch out from just us? Mm-hmm. So the licensing, the joint venture, um, those are both, that's kind of the intention behind that is to be able to start making revenue that doesn't depend on us actually, you know, showing up somewhere.

[00:24:56] Nathan: I agree. When I heard about both of these, these are the two. That most made me feel like they have room to scale. Yeah. Something I talk a lot about in my content is building skyscrapers rather in strip malls. Yeah. And right now we've got a strip mall. Definitely. And a strip mall is a great path to a million in revenue.

[00:25:13] Right. It's a terrible path to 10 million.

[00:25:15] Kristin: Yeah. That's definitely what we're feeling.

[00:25:18] Nathan: And so, okay. I wanna dive more into those. Okay. One of the thing, before we do that, I'm thinking about this whole range of things. Do you have a problem with a lot of new ideas and opportunities coming into the business?

[00:25:33] Or is that like No, you're pretty heads down focused on what you've got?

[00:25:36] Kristin: We have a lot of, yeah. Like inbound things come in. Okay. We haven't had to move much to outbound at all this point. Mm-hmm. Um, which is a good problem to have. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, it, it, there's a lot of stuff that comes in that we just, you know, are not interested in it all.

[00:25:54] Those are easy nos. For the things that we are interested in, especially my husband, because he's just, he's not involved in the business side. Yeah. He's just the creative. So it's just, this is a great idea. Yeah. So for him it's like, yeah, that'd be fun. And then, you know, our employee and I are like, uh, when are we gonna do that?

[00:26:13] So, yeah. I would say especially him, he has, um, a hard time being able to turn down opportunities Right. That he likes.

[00:26:21] Nathan: Would a framework for how to turn down opportunities, would that help? It would be very helpful. Or if we outline some of this.

[00:26:25] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:26:26] Nathan: So something that I would think about is like, how much travel are you doing?

[00:26:31] Is that you're doing quite a bit now, it's, are you at capacity for travel? Because I would imagine the keynotes and the, uh, live stage show. Yes,

[00:26:40] Kristin: yes.

[00:26:41] Nathan: Kind of have to be in person.

[00:26:42] Kristin: They do. Yeah. Uh, well, some of the keynotes can be virtual. Okay. But yeah, mostly we travel. My husband does, um, more of the keynotes than I do right now.

[00:26:52] And last year was crazy. I think we were gone most weekends, one or both of us. Oh, wow. Um, so this year we, you know, scaled that down, raised the feet in order to be able to Yes. Do fewer of them. Um, and now I would say there's seasonality to it. Mm-hmm. So some months it's none. And then other months it's maybe two or three.

[00:27:15] Okay. And, and sometimes they're like, one's on a Saturday and then one's on a Sunday and then fly home.

[00:27:22] Nathan: Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. So what, what I'm wondering is if we can put some criteria in place.

[00:27:28] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:27:28] Nathan: Where are every, these inbound opportunities are an instant No. Unless they meet like this minimum criteria.

[00:27:35] Kristin: Right.

[00:27:36] Nathan: And then you're like, okay, this is what we'll actually. Talk about. Okay. And this is, you know, what will come to decisions?

[00:27:42] Kristin: You know what just occurred to me as you say that, like, he has trouble with the inbound. I have trouble with the dreaming. Oh, okay. I have all sorts of ideas. You two compliment each other.

[00:27:52] Ideas Exactly. Ways Exactly. Problematic sometimes. Um, but yeah, I have all sorts of ideas of things that we could do that would be great. Right. But then like, how do you decide which ones of them will actually be great for the goals you have for your business?

[00:28:08] Nathan: Right. Okay. That's harder. Okay. I wanna write down both of those because it's inbound and dreams.

[00:28:13] And so both are amazing. And you don't want to be like, no. Squash your dreams. Right. Say no to every inbound. Yeah. And we spent all this time to build millions of followers, right. Get all of this attention and we're just like instant no to everything.

[00:28:26] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:28:26] Nathan: But early on in your creator career, most all of your success comes from saying yes.

[00:28:32] Kristin: Right?

[00:28:33] Nathan: And at this. Middle to later stage, like the scaling stage of your career, most all of your success comes from saying no, which is a really hard thing. Yeah. Right. If you're like, Hey, this big one trait that has served you so well is now like, going to kill all your growth potential.

[00:28:48] Kristin: Right.

[00:28:49] Nathan: Super. And you're like, uh, but I, I spent like five years learning how to do that well.

[00:28:53] So I guess thinking about these two things, um, what I would do is on inbound, um, I don't know this, I would have a list of criteria and you know, if, if it doesn't meet these criteria, right? It's just an instant No. If it does, then we're gonna talk about it.

[00:29:18] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:29:19] Nathan: Right? And that's something that we're actually considering the dreams.

[00:29:23] This is, I get into trouble all the time with my team now. I have a 93 person team. So Yeah,

[00:29:29] Kristin: a little different. A version of

[00:29:30] Nathan: me thinks like, oh, I can. We can do anything.

[00:29:33] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:29:34] Nathan: But I constantly cause trouble for the team when I'm like, and we can do this, and we can do that.

[00:29:41] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:29:41] Nathan: And we just end up killing momentum because I'm like, oh, exactly.

[00:29:44] Let's put this, this other thing. Right. Because the, the other trait that matters so much is consistent execution over a very long period of time. Yeah. You have to compound and us dreamers are the worst at compounding.

[00:29:57] Kristin: Yes. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Nathan: And so what I started to do is I have a place, it's just a notion dashboard.

[00:30:05] Kristin: Yeah. I have an a, a note apples where my

[00:30:08] Nathan: dreams go. Uhhuh. Yeah. I call mine the idea Ben, and it has a trash can emoji. Oh. Because it's just a, most

[00:30:15] Kristin: of them are trash. Yes,

[00:30:16] Nathan: exactly. Uh,

[00:30:18] Kristin: that's a good idea.

[00:30:20] Nathan: But then all of these, you know, all of these ideas are sitting here.

[00:30:25] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:30:26] Nathan: And then instead of pitching people ideas at a random time

[00:30:30] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:30:30] Nathan: Then I let. My team go into the idea bin and look at it.

[00:30:35] Kristin: Oh, okay. That's interesting. So it's

[00:30:36] Nathan: switching from a push mechanism of like, Hey, I got a great idea.

[00:30:40] Kristin: Right.

[00:30:41] Nathan: I'm, I'm trying to work here.

[00:30:43] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:30:43] Nathan: You know, I'm working on your last great idea. Right. Thank you so much. And then it goes to a pull mechanism where they can say, oh, this is interesting.

[00:30:49] Or when we come up to quarterly planning Right. Or something like that, then I'm like, Hey, here's the two things that I wanna talk about.

[00:30:58] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:30:59] Nathan: Because they've graduated from my idea bin into, you know, our little, our team meeting. Right. Yeah. That's what this is. Okay. And so those, you

[00:31:09] Kristin: know,

[00:31:10] Nathan: that is the two of you

[00:31:11] Kristin: Yes.

[00:31:12] Nathan: Having a a, a team meeting Right. Where Inbound. Right. Did you meet the criteria? Yes. Cool. It's now in the list and we'll talk about it. Uh, once a month.

[00:31:23] Kristin: Yeah. On

[00:31:23] Nathan: the first Friday of every, I dunno, you know, we meet and we talk about our ideas.

[00:31:28] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:31:29] Nathan: Then from there, you know, the things that come out of that Right.

[00:31:33] That might go into what we actually implement.

[00:31:35] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:31:36] Nathan: And that kind of thing can really help to reign in this problem.

[00:31:41] Kristin: Yes.

[00:31:42] Nathan: And I don't like, from what I'm seeing here on all of the, the range of ideas, you have too many, but

[00:31:53] Kristin: these are just the ones we're actually doing. Right. These are the ones that made it out of the bin.

[00:31:56] Nathan: Yes. It feels to me, and I'm the worst person, you know, to this is like the addict being like, but here's what you need to do. Right. Because I have the same problem. Um, so I look at this and I'm like, this is fine, so long as you don't make it worse.

[00:32:10] Kristin: Okay.

[00:32:10] Nathan: And so you have to like, if you want to actually hit 10 million

[00:32:14] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:32:14] Nathan: You have to like not have any more self-inflicted wounds. Okay. Which is great as these are that, that, you know, that's what what's gonna. Gonna create. Um, and so a really good system for dealing with opportunities and ideas will really help you.

[00:32:30] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:32:31] Nathan: Any other thoughts or reactions on that before we move on to the next thing?

[00:32:35] Kristin: I don't think so. I like the I, what I'm not doing here. I do have the bin boat, but I don't ever, no one else is in there. So right now it's just sort of an outlet. But yeah. Working it into the actual workflow, that feels better. 'cause then maybe some of them have a chance, you know? Right.

[00:32:50] Nathan: And then also if you have a process to go back to it.

[00:32:53] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:32:53] Nathan: Because what you wanna do, what I always try to do is separate my excitement.

[00:32:58] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:32:58] Nathan: About an idea from like, whether or not it's a good idea. Right. And usually time does that.

[00:33:04] Kristin: Yes. Yeah.

[00:33:05] Nathan: And so if you have a little bit of time, even if it's a week or two and, and you come back to it and you're flipping back through your idea, Ben, and you're like, oh, you know, that's still a good idea.

[00:33:13] Yeah. Let me add, lemme spend 20 minutes to add more to it. Or this other inbound thing that came in. That reminds me that that's an even better idea, right? You're sort of building this case over time,

[00:33:24] Kristin: right?

[00:33:24] Nathan: Instead of relying on enthusiasm.

[00:33:27] Kristin: Right.

[00:33:28] Nathan: Uh, which you can't make, you can't build 10 million decision or $10 million business on that enthusiasm.

[00:33:34] Kristin: Right. Yeah. Makes sense.

[00:33:36] Nathan: Okay, so the things that are making the most money for you right now are keynotes and sponsorships. Yes. Do you want those to play a bigger role in the business at 10 million or is it still relatively the same size?

[00:33:51] Kristin: I think it's probably relatively the same size, because we don't wanna have to be dependent Yeah.

[00:33:58] On those things. Because, you know, there's fewer lever levers that you can pull yourself. Like there's just negotiation that is the only lever you have Really. Um, and they pay way later than when you actually Oh yeah. Do the work. So then cashflow becomes an issue. They're like net 90, net one 20.

[00:34:17] Especially because our keynotes are with like academic institutions or organizations, a lot of the time they're so slow to, you know, get all that done, so Right. That's really the issue there is just the cash flow that that creates. I do think though, like with the sponsorships, strategic sponsorships, strategic partnerships could still mm-hmm.

[00:34:38] Play a role in 10 million, but,

[00:34:41] Nathan: but those combined at 10 million in revenue are probably not more than 2 million.

[00:34:46] Kristin: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that sounds

[00:34:48] Nathan: about right. That makes sense. Okay, so let's talk about the licensing. What, what does it look like? Maybe first, is there someone who has done the licensing to the level that you would wanna do?

[00:34:58] Like, can you think of another content creator or someone in that space who's done at least call it two to 4 million off of licensing? I

[00:35:08] Kristin: feel like this is a leading question that I should have an answer to, but I don't.

[00:35:13] Nathan: Well. I really like to copy.

[00:35:16] Kristin: Yeah. And I really like, who can I copy?

[00:35:17] Nathan: Yeah. And I just wanna know, like, has someone done this before?

[00:35:20] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:35:21] Nathan: And so that's a bit of a red flag for me. Okay. And it's like, not to say that we can't like chart new territory here. Yeah. Right. Well,

[00:35:29] Kristin: to be fair, I haven't looked. Okay. So that will be an important first step.

[00:35:32] Nathan: So I'm gonna write that down of, of a key step of, um, like for examples, and they could be in your industry in a totally different industry, any of that, but just where you're like, okay, this is a sign they could do it.

[00:35:47] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:35:47] Nathan: You know, or, or that's possible. And then you have someone to learn from.

[00:35:50] Kristin: Right.

[00:35:50] Nathan: Some of the best creators, I think of three people who have built very massive audiences. Uh, Cody Sanchez, Dan Martel, and Alex Hermo.

[00:35:59] Kristin: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:59] Nathan: Were all in the last four years or so.

[00:36:03] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:36:03] Nathan: Like they've made content before, but they got very serious about it in the last four years.

[00:36:07] And all of them. Just went and sat down with whoever they thought was the best person. Mm. And a whole collection of people and just said, can I pay you for your time? Tell me how this works. What are the lessons learned? All of that. And they were very, very deliberate about it. And they're, okay, who do I need to hire

[00:36:22] Kristin: something?

[00:36:22] Nathan: Yeah. And so if you find the examples of like, who's doing it now? Yeah. Then you can like go and say, okay, I'm gonna interview all of them. Right. And you might be like, I'm gonna say yes to this keynote opportunity that's not at my speaking fee, because

[00:36:38] Kristin: someone is there. That person

[00:36:39] Nathan: is there. Yeah. And you know what, I'm, I'd love to meet them in the green room behind the scenes rather than as a fan, you know?

[00:36:46] Kristin: Right.

[00:36:47] Nathan: And so there, there's little things that you can do for that, but the first step is to find the examples.

[00:36:50] Kristin: Okay. Yeah. That's a great idea. Sometimes CEUs are, um, mixed in there similar too. Yeah. Where like, I know, I have to figure that out of like, do they go together? Are they separate?

[00:37:03] Nathan: Yeah. There's a lot of companies I've had of a few guests on the podcast too.

[00:37:07] Their courses, you know Yeah. Are good for continuing education credits. Right. Um,

[00:37:12] Kristin: so yeah, some of the licensing would be like educational frameworks mm-hmm. Or like medical schools or teaching hospitals to be able to use with their students and employees. Yeah. Um, so that gets a little, like it's licensing, but it's also education, so you could do CEUs with it.

[00:37:28] Yep. I think it's a little, I

[00:37:30] Nathan: Okay, so the licensing is very much a, a B2B Yes. Business. Yeah. Right. And so you're, you're targeting other businesses. If you, um, if you think about the future of this business and like just what you enjoy, right. 'cause sponsorships and keynotes are both B2B.

[00:37:49] Kristin: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:50] Nathan: Do you wanna spend most of your time on the B2B side, or do you see the future of this business more B2C?

[00:37:58] Like how does that play out?

[00:37:59] Kristin: To be fully honest, I'm not sure yet. Because what's fun is the creative stuff and the writing and the, you know, and that is. Not B2B right. So much. Um, but what makes the money is the B2B stuff. So, um, and it's not like I don't like those things, it's just that's not as like fun and exciting and creative.

[00:38:23] Right. As the other pieces,

[00:38:25] Nathan: I think what's really interesting is you have a very valuable audience.

[00:38:29] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:38:30] Nathan: Right. Because it's all medical professionals who are making me, you know, really meaningful amounts of money. Uh, they've invested, you know, a decade plus of their life and education and everything else.

[00:38:40] Right, right. To, to get to this point, but also from something you're telling me earlier, they're very hesitant to be sold to.

[00:38:47] Kristin: Yes. That is a real, like, tricky line to, to walk as a healthcare content creator. Yeah. Um, they just because of like all of these ethical boundaries that we talked about earlier, it, they're very skeptical of.

[00:39:02] Everything really as they should be. And they like to police each other and, and police other people. So you have to be very careful about what products you're selling, how you're,

[00:39:12] Nathan: what would be an example of something that someone from the outside might be like, oh, why don't you just sell this? And you'd be like, oh, here's 10 reasons why.

[00:39:19] Yeah, that's a terrible idea.

[00:39:19] Kristin: Supplements for sure.

[00:39:21] Nathan: Okay.

[00:39:21] Kristin: Yeah. Um, the wellness industry is really big right now, and supplements are a big part of that industry, but supplements aren't regulated at all by any right body at all. So, um, you could put whatever you want in supplements and put whatever you want on the label and just sell themm.

[00:39:38] And so physicians, um, and medical professionals as a whole, that obviously conflicts with Right. Um, their ethics and their goals for, for health.

[00:39:47] Nathan: Yep. Okay. That makes sense. And what's something that if you were to sell it directly to your audience, they'd be like, oh yeah, no, that's okay.

[00:39:53] Kristin: They seem most amenable to the show, merch.

[00:39:58] Oh yeah.

[00:40:02] Nathan: Let's get that in there.

[00:40:03] Kristin: Yeah. Um, things that are just like entertainment based. Okay. You know, the hard thing is

[00:40:10] Nathan: we're not gonna make much money off. No. Those,

[00:40:12] Kristin: no.

[00:40:13] Nathan: I mean, are you making, have you made over a hundred thousand dollars on the show?

[00:40:16] Kristin: Oh, yeah.

[00:40:16] Nathan: Okay.

[00:40:17] Kristin: I mean, not on like one show.

[00:40:19] Nathan: Right. But on total on all of them.

[00:40:20] Yeah.

[00:40:21] Kristin: Okay. Yeah.

[00:40:22] Nathan: Over a hundred thousand dollars on merch.

[00:40:24] Kristin: No way. Merch is so tiny. Yeah.

[00:40:26] Nathan: Okay.

[00:40:26] Kristin: We're like, is it even worth doing?

[00:40:29] Nathan: Right. And those are the kind of questions that you have to ask.

[00:40:31] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:40:31] Nathan: Because it's so easy to say like, well of course we have merch, it's just this.

[00:40:35] Kristin: Right.

[00:40:35] Nathan: And then you, when you actually add it up, it takes a lot of your time.

[00:40:38] Kristin: Yeah, it does. So like that is kind of a, what's the word? It's, it's basically just for the delight of the audience. Right. You know, and we try to at least break even.

[00:40:50] Nathan: Okay. That makes sense.

[00:40:51] Kristin: Yeah. So the licensing, like right now, the baby step that we've taken towards that is, um, just a little. 20 page PDF, that's we're calling a curriculum supplement, um, that teaches all, all the stuff about how to do social media ethically as a healthcare content creator.

[00:41:09] Okay. So that, so that's like our test product to see if there's interest. Um, and then if that goes well, then, you know, we can develop that out further and further.

[00:41:20] Nathan: Okay. So that's the start there.

[00:41:22] Kristin: Hmm.

[00:41:23] Nathan: I think the licensing is really interesting. Let's talk a little bit, let's put the licensing on hold for a second.

[00:41:27] Okay. And talk about the joint venture side of it.

[00:41:28] Kristin: Okay.

[00:41:29] Nathan: So this is, as I understand it, you are working with your production company

[00:41:33] Kristin: Yes.

[00:41:34] Nathan: And you're helping, uh, medical professionals mm-hmm. Who want to build an audience on social media, and you're helping them do that. Is that right?

[00:41:42] Kristin: Kind of. Yeah. So we we're looking like the ideal customer profile would be, you know, people that want to continue mm-hmm.

[00:41:49] As a. Medical professional, but also want to do social media. Right. And that might be to make a little money on the side. It might be to, you know, connect with other people that are interested in medicine. It might be to educate the public. Mm-hmm. Um, there's a lot of misinformation on social media right now.

[00:42:08] And so, uh, one of the things we advocate for is the importance of physicians being on social media to provide that accurate information.

[00:42:16] Nathan: And I said, help them grow. But you're doing Yeah. Could be growing way more for

[00:42:19] Kristin: all sorts of reasons.

[00:42:20] Nathan: Um, way more on that. Okay. This is the thing, you're doing it right now as a revenue share?

[00:42:28] Kristin: Yes.

[00:42:28] Nathan: Right. Where, um, you're making some money from it. The creator, the physician is making a substantial amount of money. Right. And then

[00:42:36] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:42:37] Nathan: Uh, the production company is making money as well.

[00:42:39] Kristin: Right.

[00:42:39] Nathan: I have a proposal here.

[00:42:41] Kristin: Okay.

[00:42:41] Nathan: Because this, I think it all goes hand in hand. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:45] Kristin: Like,

[00:42:45] Nathan: I think the licensing is important because it's on the same topic.

[00:42:49] Kristin: Right. You have

[00:42:49] Nathan: an audience overlap here that I think is really good. A lot of people are like, I'm doing this and I'm doing that. And you're actually on the similar topic, right? Of this ethical social media in medicine, how to have an impact, you know, all of that.

[00:43:02] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:43:03] Nathan: I think you should do the joint venture as a product I service.

[00:43:06] Kristin: Okay.

[00:43:07] Nathan: Uh, so I'm gonna throw something out there and then you can be like, no, that will never work. And here's 12 reasons why. Um, what I think you should do is I think, uh, you should build an agency.

[00:43:18] Kristin: Okay.

[00:43:21] Nathan: And you should charge $5,000 a month. And what it does is full end-to-end content production

[00:43:29] Kristin: mm-hmm.

[00:43:30] Nathan: For medical professionals.

[00:43:32] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:43:33] Nathan: And it is something that they come in and buy and they pay for as clients, and there's not a rev share component to it.

[00:43:41] Kristin: Okay.

[00:43:41] Nathan: Because it makes all the lines much more clean.

[00:43:44] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:43:45] Nathan: Um, what this agency is doing. Um, strategy, production, we'll say growth. This might be too many things, but we're throwing it all out there.

[00:43:59] Kristin: Yeah. The creation of like editing and whatnot, I guess that's in production.

[00:44:02] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:44:03] Kristin: Yeah. It's basically like US strategy production is a production company and then this piece is all of our contractors, what they're doing for us right now.

[00:44:11] Nathan: Right. You know, because you know, you have a feel for what works and um, yeah.

[00:44:16] And all of those things. And so what I imagine you having is something where the time commitment for a medical professional and the system that they should use is very well defined.

[00:44:29] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:44:29] Nathan: And so your promise would be, one, you have to care about this. Right? Like, we're not trying to convince someone they should do this.

[00:44:36] This is only for the people who are like, Hey, actually I really want to. Do social media and all of that, right?

[00:44:41] Kristin: Yeah. And at the B2B level, that's like, because it's a liability if you don't do it correctly.

[00:44:46] Nathan: Right? Well, um, what would we, the strategy, like, there's a lot in the strategy, but I feel like calling out as a bullet is so important of like mm-hmm.

[00:44:54] Because I could hire any, uh, as a content creator in the business world, I could hire any agency and it would be fine.

[00:45:02] Kristin: Right?

[00:45:02] Nathan: In the medical world, if I hired any agency, they might be like, and then use this hook. Right. And it will, you know, and you might like step, there's different rules. There's landmines.

[00:45:11] Kristin: Yes, exactly. So what,

[00:45:12] Nathan: uh, is there a word that you, we would use to describe like the, is the, it's

[00:45:17] Kristin: like the healthcare. I don't know. Is it culture? Is it, uh, ethics. Ethics? Yeah. I mean, so we're saying ethics. Sure. Why reinvent the wheel? That's what we're saying. Um,

[00:45:28] Nathan: and like, not to say that other agencies are unethical.

[00:45:30] Kristin: No. People understand particular ethics to this industry. Yes,

[00:45:33] Nathan: exactly. And so I think there's a lot of expertise here. The other thing is. I think an audience is worth an incredible amount.

[00:45:42] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:45:42] Nathan: To the right healthcare providers, it's either worth a huge amount to them from an impact perspective.

[00:45:49] Kristin: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:49] Nathan: Where they got tired one too many times of scrolling, TikTok, uh, and they were like, alright, that's not true.

[00:45:56] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:45:57] Nathan: You know, and I'm sick of people coming into my practice and thinking that that's true. Yeah.

[00:46:01] Kristin: Well, and right now it's like costing real lives some of this stuff that's not true. That's floating around.

[00:46:05] Nathan: So that like is very high value. And then the other side is if you're getting patients, you know, I think of um, you know, there's plenty of industries, whether it's uh, like cosmetic surgeries or that sort of thing where inbound patients who say, no, I want to work with you.

[00:46:22] Kristin: Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:23] Nathan: Um, like personal

[00:46:25] Kristin: brand.

[00:46:25] Nathan: Right. And that could be very, very meaningful. Like you could build an entire practice on it. Right. Just like we've seen, um, something like Jefferson Fisher has built an entire law practice right on like. He has people trying to work with him from all over and he is like, no, I, I practice in the state of Texas.

[00:46:40] Yeah. You know, and they're like, no, but really will you do this? He is like, no, no, no. Yeah. You know, he's scale. He has a 20 person law firm now in two and a half years. Wow. All because of his, uh, Instagram.

[00:46:50] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:46:51] Nathan: Right.

[00:46:51] Kristin: Great.

[00:46:52] Nathan: And so this, like, I think it could be a very clear offer, a ton of value, and it could be like a clear purchase that someone could make.

[00:47:02] Yeah. And I think it could be affordable within what someone might wanna invest. Now, 5,000 a month

[00:47:07] Kristin: is, that might be a little high. Yeah. And depending on what specialty they're in, you know, they make different amounts. Right.

[00:47:13] Nathan: What are, what are your reactions?

[00:47:15] Kristin: I think that makes a lot of sense. I've kind of been thinking of it as an agency in my mind anyway.

[00:47:21] Like I haven't been describing it that way, but like, long term, the Dreamer mm-hmm. Goes, yeah. That's kind of a logical endpoint. Um, I've even thought about, I. This will not happen in real life, but like a dream scenario would be if I, we could just acquire this company that does all of our contracting stuff because we really love the quality of their work and, and all of that.

[00:47:44] Right. So,

[00:47:45] Nathan: um, we'll just send them this podcast episode and then Yes. Out there.

[00:47:49] Kristin: There you go. Uh, gotta get some capital first, but

[00:47:53] Nathan: listen to minute 47 or whatever. Yeah.

[00:47:55] Kristin: Hint, hint. No. So yeah, if we can turn like the cost centers of doing this into profit centers, kind of the sawhill bloom approach. Right, right.

[00:48:04] That would be ama, like, that's my big dream.

[00:48:06] Nathan: Okay. So a couple of things here. First, let's, let's just talk about numbers. 17 clients equals a million. So 170 then would get you to your 10 million. Yeah. You don't even need that many 'cause you've already got a million from this. Do you think out of the 5 million.

[00:48:27] People who follow you.

[00:48:28] Kristin: I thought you were gonna say projects. Out of the 5

[00:48:30] Nathan: million projects you do? No, outta the 5 million.

[00:48:33] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:48:33] Nathan: Total, like combined social audiences. Mm-hmm. And let's, I don't know if you narrow it down, it's a million unique people or Yeah. Know, or 2 million or whatever. Do you think there's 170 people that would want to hire you all to like, have some level of your success on social media?

[00:48:48] Kristin: I think there are. I think the, the pricing is gonna be important.

[00:48:53] Nathan: Okay.

[00:48:54] So

[00:48:55] that brings up one of my favorite topics ever.

[00:48:57] Kristin: Oh, good.

[00:48:59] Nathan: Something that I've been a nerd on for like, more than a decade. And that's, uh, pricing tears. Yeah. And not as in like, we're crying about it as in like, there's separate levels.

[00:49:08] Right. Levels.

[00:49:08] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:49:09] Nathan: Uh, and so you see, you know, you see this on every, uh, software platform Yeah. And all of that. And that's just where, you know, we're like, here's the main option. And it's like, do you wanna buy this one or this one? Right. Right. And we're really saying like. You know, this says recommended.

[00:49:26] Yeah. And then here's the other options.

[00:49:26] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:49:27] Nathan: In this case, what I would do is I would just have one option at 3000 a month.

[00:49:31] Kristin: Okay.

[00:49:32] Nathan: And one at 5,000 a month.

[00:49:33] Kristin: Okay. Yeah. And

[00:49:34] Nathan: then that way,

[00:49:36] Kristin: uh Oh, you have five thousand's an anchor too.

[00:49:38] Nathan: Yeah, exactly. I think you'd be surprised at how many will take the 5,000 option.

[00:49:42] Kristin: Yeah. Could be.

[00:49:43] Nathan: But then what you're going to end up with is, uh, there's three different versions of this. Right. So, um, one would be we'll teach you how to do it.

[00:49:52] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:49:53] Nathan: Two is, um, done with, and then three is than four.

[00:49:59] Kristin: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:01] Nathan: Anyone who has more time than money

[00:50:03] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:50:04] Nathan: Is gonna say, great. Just teach me how to do it.

[00:50:07] Kristin: Right. I

[00:50:07] Nathan: will learn all of that. Give me the guidelines.

[00:50:10] Kristin: This is maybe like med students for example. That's,

[00:50:12] Nathan: yeah, that would be a great example where they're like, look, I'm going to buy a multi hundred dollars, maybe one time purchase.

[00:50:19] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:50:20] Nathan: I'm gonna say like, Hey, thank you so much. What I really want in there is Right, you have a checklist under the ethics mm-hmm.

[00:50:28] Side of it. Right. And so before I put out every piece of content Yeah. I can go consult that checklist and be like, okay, cool. Yep. Within my

[00:50:38] Kristin: right,

[00:50:38] Nathan: uh, passes

[00:50:39] Kristin: the Glock and FL and snip test.

[00:50:41] Nathan: Yes, exactly. And so, you know, that's the side of it. And then maybe in your packages, the done with you mm-hmm. Is you're providing strategy, you're providing, um, like you're giving them advice on how to do their own editing Yeah.

[00:50:58] And that type of thing. Uh, but you're not necessarily doing it for them or you're doing it for them in a light way. Yeah. You know, here's templates, here's, uh, that kind of thing.

[00:51:07] Kristin: Okay.

[00:51:07] Nathan: Um, and then in the done for you, you're like, look, all you have to do is here's our, our production process.

[00:51:14] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:51:15] Nathan: Here's where you're uploading.

[00:51:17] The videos that you make, were end to end. We're doing the whole thing.

[00:51:20] Kristin: Right.

[00:51:21] Nathan: And then you can address these different price points. Um, and you'd be, I, I think that you'll be surprised at how many go for the $5,000 a month.

[00:51:29] Kristin: Okay.

[00:51:30] Nathan: The times that I've done this, I did this back in, you know, 20 12, 20 13 when I was writing my first books and I did tiered pricing on them and I was shocked.

[00:51:40] Like I had my $250 anchor price that Yeah. Is just there to make the other ones

[00:51:45] Kristin: Right.

[00:51:46] Nathan: Um, you know, look cheap and half of all the revenue came from

[00:51:51] Kristin: Oh, wow. That

[00:51:52] Nathan: top end.

[00:51:52] Kristin: Yeah. Where the shot, you can always change it if it doesn't go anywhere. Right?

[00:51:56] Nathan: Yes. Okay. So when you were first talking about the licensing and the joint venture Yeah.

[00:52:01] I thought of them as two totally separate things.

[00:52:03] Kristin: Okay.

[00:52:04] Nathan: And they, they're different methods of making money. Yes. And they're different business practices. But what I love is that your content, your topic is actually the same.

[00:52:13] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:52:14] Nathan: And, you know, overlaps with some of your keynotes as well and, and all this where you're saying, you know, it's really how medical professionals can and should do social media, you know, within all the, the bounds of ethics and best practice and everything else.

[00:52:30] And so they actually feed off of each other quite well. Where I imagine if your content is licensed to these top industries

[00:52:38] Kristin: yeah.

[00:52:38] Nathan: That adds credibility to your agency, right?

[00:52:43] Kristin: Yeah, sure.

[00:52:44] Nathan: I get really excited about this because, uh, I, I think that you can pick out, you know, from the big audience you could pick out not that many people.

[00:52:53] Kristin: Yeah, true. And proportionally that's nothing. 170 out of 5 million.

[00:52:57] Nathan: Isn't it crazy that we could, like you could get 17 clients for this agency and you could double your revenue for your business. That

[00:53:02] Kristin: is insane. Because I feel like if we had the capacity, we definitely could get 17 people today, right?

[00:53:09] Like.

[00:53:10] Nathan: They're

[00:53:11] Kristin: there

[00:53:11] Nathan: and you could run this a pre-launch, um, list or that, or that kind of thing. Yeah. And that would be really interesting. The other thing is people, you know, they don't wanna be sold to.

[00:53:22] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:53:23] Nathan: And I feel like as you talk about this publicly of building this agency, then what you get to do is to just say, look, this isn't for everyone.

[00:53:32] We're looking for the people who you know, want to have an impact and wanna scale their practice. Right. That's not you like. Don't worry about it.

[00:53:39] Kristin: Right. You know, just keep enjoying the free content. Yes. Yeah.

[00:53:42] Nathan: We'll keep entertaining you.

[00:53:43] Kristin: I see a flywheel too, I think, right between the podcast. 'cause we interview healthcare professionals sometimes.

[00:53:49] Nathan: Okay.

[00:53:49] Kristin: Yeah. And through that we have a list of like 25 people already that we're like, we're kind of interested in reaching out to them. Oh, interesting. So, as you know, we continue doing the podcast and

[00:54:01] Nathan: let's try to sketch a flywheel. Um,

[00:54:04] Kristin: it's like a, what is that? Like a, a two thing flywheel?

[00:54:08] Nathan: Well, let's see.

[00:54:10] Uh, the podcast wouldn't exist without the skis.

[00:54:13] Kristin: True. Yes. Okay.

[00:54:14] Nathan: So there's that top of funnel audience. I always kind of talk through them and then I try to sketch it out.

[00:54:20] Kristin: Okay.

[00:54:20] Nathan: So there's some level of top of funnel audience.

[00:54:21] Kristin: Yes.

[00:54:22] Nathan: A deeper relationship on more serious topics on the podcast. Yes.

[00:54:26] Kristin: Uhhuh.

[00:54:27] Nathan: Um, and then there's something of getting clients.

[00:54:31] Kristin: Yeah. The keynotes. I feel like also the keynotes and the podcast, like the connections that we make with the professional associations.

[00:54:38] Nathan: Sometimes what what helps is to draw a linear process. Okay. And you'd be like, okay, how is there a loop closer in there? Yeah. Right. So maybe if you were to write, if you went skits to podcast, um, yeah.

[00:54:50] If you wanna write that down, I'll let let you jump in. Add some, some fun pops of color.

[00:54:55] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:54:56] Nathan: And that's going to the podcast. And then from there, are we just into potential clients?

[00:55:02] Kristin: I think so,

[00:55:03] Nathan: yeah. And you'd have to have a sales process and, and you're gonna need to figure out what sales mechanism, um, you're going to use.

[00:55:10] Yeah. Because it's enough of a price point that you're going to have to, um, and take some work,

[00:55:16] Kristin: right.

[00:55:16] Nathan: To sell those. But that was kind of the next thing there would be to talk about team to bring it back. Yes. Right. And so what team do you think you would need to operate an agency? Maybe let's start with at the 1 million a year level.

[00:55:32] Kristin: Okay. Oh, this is. This million dollar question literally. Um, I feel like we need more, uh, at least one or two more than what we have Okay. At the moment. Okay. Um, because if we're doing all of this mm-hmm. And all of this mm-hmm. Like, we don't have a ton of time to divide, you know, over here, so Right. But, but like us being our brand, being key to the strategy piece.

[00:56:04] Mm-hmm. Like,

[00:56:06] Nathan: so what things require your time, like ongoing, there's somewhere that like Yeah. The systems can be set up.

[00:56:14] Kristin: True. Yeah. We could just kind of do some upfront work best practices. Mm-hmm. That sort of thing. And then Yeah. Then we wouldn't be required as much. Um, the production definitely requires the production company's

[00:56:29] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:56:29] Kristin: Time. Um,

[00:56:30] Nathan: thankfully that's not your error,

[00:56:32] Kristin: not ours. Yes. I feel like growth and ethics are kind of part of strategy. Mm-hmm. At least for this industry and this.

[00:56:40] Nathan: Yeah. And there's going to be growth Strat, like, um, like just general content creation, growth strategy. Yeah. If it's not, you know, medical industry specific.

[00:56:51] Kristin: Right.

[00:56:51] Nathan: But what I'm getting at is that both the strategy and the ethics side of it. Mm-hmm. What are your biggest areas of expertise?

[00:56:59] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:56:59] Nathan: And I think you can productize those. Okay. I don't think you have to be on calls with clients being like, here's what you need to do.

[00:57:06] Kristin: Right.

[00:57:07] Nathan: I think you can create the content and training.

[00:57:10] Yeah. And maybe you're hosting an hour once a month with all of your clients. Hey, what questions do you have?

[00:57:16] Kristin: Right.

[00:57:17] Nathan: And really what you're looking for is you wanna make them feel taken care of.

[00:57:22] Kristin: Yeah. But

[00:57:22] Nathan: you're also saying, Hey, what, what questions do you have that I have so far failed to answer in my pre-prepared material.

[00:57:28] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:57:28] Nathan: So that you're like, all right, cool. Well, next month, well, I'm gonna answer them live. Then I'm at a workshop like, okay,

[00:57:34] Kristin: add that to that. Was

[00:57:35] Nathan: that a good answer? You know, how do we make it a great answer? And then now we're gonna sit down once a quarter or something like that and record a few more videos

[00:57:43] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:57:43] Nathan: That go into the library. It's like, okay, here's the example in case study there. Okay.

[00:57:48] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:57:48] Nathan: Probably another thing, I, I think there's a lot you can do when something's behind a paywall.

[00:57:53] Kristin: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:54] Nathan: This is kinda the magic of, of that is you can talk in a much more frank way. Right. If you ever wanted to do something of like, commentary on like active, um, I was gonna say, you know, not ca like if you're a lawyer, it'd be like this case that's happening right now.

[00:58:10] Kristin: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:10] Nathan: And, and maybe like healthcare

[00:58:11] Kristin: news or something.

[00:58:12] Nathan: Healthcare news. But, you know, thinking about like pulling up an example

[00:58:16] Kristin: Yeah. Of

[00:58:16] Nathan: a content creator and being like, isn't it fascinating? Here's how they mm-hmm. Walked this tightrope expertly,

[00:58:23] Kristin: yeah.

[00:58:23] Nathan: In like, provided great education and all this, but they.

[00:58:27] Stayed within what's evidence-based.

[00:58:29] Kristin: Right. And

[00:58:29] Nathan: maybe even if it's behind a paywall, say, and here's an example of someone

[00:58:32] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:58:33] Nathan: Really screwing it up.

[00:58:33] Kristin: Didn't Yeah. Right. And

[00:58:34] Nathan: so then someone's feeling like, oh man, I'm in the inner circle and I'm getting like real world advice. Um, so there's a lot that you could do on the Yeah.

[00:58:43] Kristin: Community side

[00:58:44] Nathan: there. So going to team, I think you need, um, let's see. You need a GM of some kind.

[00:58:50] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:58:51] Nathan: You need one person who can run this. They're responsible for the metrics, for client satisfaction, all of that. And you're gonna have a monthly meeting with this person and you're like, all right, we have 11 clients right now.

[00:59:04] Here's, you know, they're all getting their video, like videos in, they're all growing in this way. Yeah.

[00:59:08] Kristin: Keeping

[00:59:09] Nathan: track. And you're going to have kind of that dashboard, you're going to need people for production.

[00:59:16] Kristin: Hmm.

[00:59:16] Nathan: That's the, the most time consuming thing.

[00:59:19] Kristin: Yeah.

[00:59:19] Nathan: I would guess, you know, you, you might need.

[00:59:24] Three people for production. Okay. It just depends. It depends on how much content each

[00:59:28] Kristin: Yeah. And what type. Some of it requires more production time than others. Yeah.

[00:59:32] Nathan: Uh, but let's just say two to three production people. And then I would say one for growth. And I think you could run the business on that.

[00:59:40] Kristin: Okay.

[00:59:41] Nathan: Now, you know, if you think Okay, a million a year, do we have enough money for that?

[00:59:46] Kristin: Right.

[00:59:47] Nathan: You know, if you're going a hundred thousand dollars a year per person, then yes, we're at 50% margins. Mm-hmm. Some of these rules are gonna cost more than that. Um, but even then, like rule of thumb, I don't think you're gonna be out more than five to $600,000 a year.

[01:00:02] Okay. On hiring that whole team. And then you, you know, that's the bulk of your costs. You could still add, add a million, you know, and that's if you're doing a US based team

[01:00:14] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:00:14] Nathan: On all of this. Right. Of, um, production, video editing really great things to, to offshore. Mm-hmm. Um. Or you might have one person who's like your lead editor and then, you know, the, you're offshoring more of that work,

[01:00:28] Kristin: right.

[01:00:29] Nathan: So that you can meet a cheaper price point and

[01:00:31] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:00:32] Nathan: Um, all of that, but I don't think it's gonna take that much of a team.

[01:00:38] Kristin: Okay.

[01:00:38] Nathan: Beyond that.

[01:00:39] Kristin: Cool.

[01:00:40] Nathan: But the big shift that I want you to make from the way you were talking about the joint venture coming in

[01:00:45] Kristin: mm-hmm.

[01:00:45] Nathan: Is it was, uh, muddled

[01:00:48] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:00:49] Nathan: The responsibilities, who does what.

[01:00:52] Yeah. You know, and you're doing all these one-off relationships,

[01:00:55] Kristin: right.

[01:00:56] Nathan: Every medical profession who comes to you and says, Hey, I wanna have an impact on social media, then you were doing a custom bespoke

[01:01:03] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:01:04] Nathan: Thing for each person.

[01:01:05] Kristin: Right. And you

[01:01:05] Nathan: cannot scale that way.

[01:01:06] Kristin: No.

[01:01:07] Nathan: The only way that would work, uh, is if like, you worked with a couple people and they got very, very big.

[01:01:13] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:01:14] Nathan: And like bigger than you are now.

[01:01:16] Kristin: Right,

[01:01:17] Nathan: right. Because their best case scenario is probably to do a million a year.

[01:01:21] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:01:21] Nathan: And you're like, oh, well. And if I'm only making a small portion of that, like that joint mention the way you were describing it before, not to be harsh.

[01:01:28] Kristin: No, but

[01:01:28] Nathan: I don't think it would ever contribute.

[01:01:30] I don't think it would ever bring in more than a million dollars a year for you.

[01:01:32] Kristin: Okay.

[01:01:33] Nathan: Like even in the absolute best case scenario.

[01:01:35] Kristin: Right.

[01:01:36] Nathan: And so if you switch to being the provider of a productized service

[01:01:41] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:01:41] Nathan: Where everything is abso like completely standardized and you're just like, here's our exact process.

[01:01:47] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:01:48] Nathan: We are the experts, we are known. Right. You know, we have the reputation, then, uh, you know, you're gonna be able to make the buying process so easy and work people through, you know, a tried and true system that you can scale and repeat over and over again.

[01:02:03] Kristin: Right. I like it.

[01:02:05] Nathan: Alright. We've talked about a lot of different things here.

[01:02:08] Kristin: Yes.

[01:02:09] Nathan: Do you wanna sit down and we'll kind of recap the episode?

[01:02:11] Kristin: Yeah, let's do it.

[01:02:13] Nathan: So the first thing is, I wanna know what stands out from you or for you in everything we've talked about.

[01:02:20] Kristin: Um, a couple things. One, like having the clarity on that joint venture idea is really, really helpful in thinking of it more as a productized service situation.

[01:02:31] Um, and then it's just kind of, it, I know it's like crazy and messy and it looks like a lot of things, but it's nice to see it laid out to see that like, okay, they at least are related things. Mm-hmm. Like we're not going too far afield. We just maybe have too many. Right. But we're at least not like trying to go in too many different directions at once.

[01:02:55] Just too many different things within one direction.

[01:02:57] Nathan: Yeah. And I think the audience overlap was really encouraging to me when I realized that everything you're trying to do really is around this idea of like responsible social media. 'cause it is it, right. It's such a huge gift. Right. If you use it well, yeah.

[01:03:13] You know? Yeah. And so that, that's something that I think you're uniquely eager to provide. The other thing that I'm thinking about in this is, you know, we had this question, like under licensing, we said, look for examples.

[01:03:25] Kristin: Yes.

[01:03:25] Nathan: And I fully believe that they're out there, but none come to mind at the moment.

[01:03:29] And so that'll be a research project Yeah. Uh, to dive into when you take the joint venture and you reimagine it as a product, as service. Mm-hmm. Or as an agency, there are tons of examples. Yeah. You know, and we, there's agencies that have scaled to tens of millions a year in revenue. Like there's really a lot to find.

[01:03:48] Kristin: Okay.

[01:03:49] Nathan: And so then also when you're looking to hire a gm, well you would hire a GM who has scaled two millions in, in revenue. And they're like, well, I don't have experience in the medical industry. And you're like, that's okay. We bring that side of it.

[01:04:02] Kristin: Yeah.

[01:04:03] Nathan: Right. But you're great at operations.

[01:04:05] Kristin: Right.

[01:04:05] Nathan: And so you took something that was nebulous and brought it into.

[01:04:10] Something like very concrete and standardized. Yeah. Where the whole rest of the industry goes, okay, that's what you're doing. Cool. Right. Here's example is here's who you talk to, here's best practices, here's the software to use. All of that.

[01:04:21] Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. Not having to reinvent the wheel is fantastic. Yeah.

[01:04:26] Nathan: I love that.

[01:04:27] All right. Uh, how are you feeling, you know, before you came in versus, versus now?

[01:04:33] Kristin: This, I'm much more settled, like at first as I was showing you my notebook, and it's just like a jumble of like, these are, it's a brain dump of everything that's in my head, and so this kind of helps me connect the dots a little bit better.

[01:04:46] Um, and then having, you know, some kind of criteria for, for how to make decisions, you know, that feels like something that is settling and, you know, would be helpful. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, it's just, that's a lot. Clearer than when I came in. For sure.

[01:05:02] Nathan: I love that. Well, you're doing really important work. Oh, thanks.

[01:05:06] You've built a massive audience, like huge kudos to you and your husband on running a business and an audience to the scale, and I'm just so excited to see where you take it from here.

[01:05:17] Kristin: Thanks.

[01:05:17] Nathan: So if people want to follow Oh yeah. You know, follow the journey, listen to the podcast, uh, maybe see some skits as well.

[01:05:24] Where should they go? Yeah.

[01:05:25] Kristin: Um, glock flecking.com is the, is where we, you know, have everything, it links out to all the different things we're doing.

[01:05:32] Nathan: I like, pretty quickly for anyone you should. Yeah.

[01:05:34] Kristin: It sounds just like, it sounds, it shouldn't be a problem.

[01:05:36] Nathan: You should, they can Google it. It'll auto correct.

[01:05:39] But you should just explain where the name came from because it is, it is not your last name, correct.

[01:05:44] Kristin: Right. That is not our last name. Um, it, my husband needed to be anonymous early on. Because again, this like idea about social media being a tricky thing for physicians. Um, and so he used a pseudonym and because he's medical comedy, he was trying to come up with the most absurd sounding name within his specialty, which is ophthalmology.

[01:06:04] Um, and so he landed on Gloc and black and so it's a real ophthalmologic condition. Um, but now sadly, he is more famous than the actual thing.

[01:06:15] Nathan: Yes, exactly. Someone who's searching for that, you know, a medical journal on that and all they can find, they get through all

[01:06:21] Kristin: these ridiculous skits first. Yeah.

[01:06:23] Nathan: Yes.

[01:06:23] Okay. So people should go just search on any channel for Guam flocking.

[01:06:27] Kristin: Yes, we're everywhere.

[01:06:28] Nathan: Yeah, that sounds good. Well, good luck on all of this.

[01:06:32] Kristin: Thanks for coming on and Oh, thanks for having me.

[01:06:34] Nathan: We're all cheering for you.

[01:06:35] Kristin: Thanks.

[01:06:36] Nathan: If you enjoyed this episode, go to YouTube and search the Nathan Berry Show.

[01:06:41] Then hit subscribe and make sure to like the video and drop a comment. I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were and also just who else do you think we should have on the show. Thank you so much for listening.