The Nathan Barry Show

[00:00:00] Pat: But 1.7 million subs on YouTube, 1 million on Instagram, 1.5 on TikTok, 10 million views a day.

[00:00:06] Nathan: Most creators get one breakout hit in their career if they're lucky. But today's guest has done it multiple times across totally different industries.

[00:00:14] Pat: A lot of the Pokemon stuff that I do, which is more entertainment.

[00:00:17] I'm taking the lessons there and I'm putting them back into the entrepreneurial education world that I'm in.

[00:00:22] Nathan: Pat Flynn is one of the most respected entrepreneurs in the creator space. He's also the author of Lean Learning that shows how creators can grow faster by experimenting more and consuming less.

[00:00:32] Pat: Quantity is key. I know people say quality is key. I'm not saying sacrifice value. Yeah, but sacrifice a little quality to get quantity so you get more data and more reps in What I'm learning about YouTube, especially with titles and thumbnails and how to keep a person retained throughout a video, I mean, really at the base of all this is one of the videos we did had 11 million views.

[00:00:53] It was like $45,000 in ad revenue. That's wild. From one video. And so we're like, Ooh, we have a formula now.

[00:01:00] Nathan: What are some of those things that you've learned and been able to take into, you know, all of your content?

[00:01:05] Pat: If there was one thing to leave your audience with is that's how we got to 1 million.

[00:01:11] Should I open it? Should I keep this seal?

[00:01:15] Nathan: That was really cool. There's so much good stuff in there. So Pat, we're here at Craft and Commerce in Boise. We hosted a mastermind the first day for about 50 top creators. And partway through You dipped out for a few minutes. Yeah, I had to leave. Tell me about that.

[00:01:31] Pat: I had to leave 'cause I got a text message from my publisher. I just published this new book and, um, they were like, we have some good news we wanna share with you. Now before this, by the way, we of course are trying to hit the New York Times and stuff and, uh, I had a dream the night before that I hit it and then I woke up.

[00:01:49] And then I was really mad because it was, and in this dream you were in Japan and Yeah.

[00:01:53] Nathan: I mean, I should have known it was a dream.

[00:01:54] Pat: There were like, you know, Pikachu and ARD were hanging out with me and stuff. Uh, and I woke up, I was like actually upset 'cause I, it's been always been a really big goal of mine.

[00:02:03] Um, but I woke up in the morning, I got a message from, from a buddy of mine who said I hit the USA today. Yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Made a bestseller list. Made a bestseller list. I can always say I'm a national bestseller. And we were preparing ourselves for just, the numbers weren't huge.

[00:02:17] Mm-hmm. And it's been a very competitive year. We've been, uh, seeing it. And so we're just like, you're probably not gonna hit New York Times, but you should be proud of what you've done.

[00:02:25] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:02:25] Pat: Midway through this mastermind in front of these incredible creators where everybody's like, in these deep conversations, uh, I get the text message from my publishers and I go out into the hallway.

[00:02:35] They given the news that we actually hit the New York Times. I cry for like 15 minutes 'cause literally all the emotions, frustrations with the process and everything and just how happy I was. Hit me. And I came back to the table and like my eyes are bloodshot and everybody stops talking like, are you okay?

[00:02:52] Like, are you fine? Like a car accident happened,

[00:02:54] Nathan: you got some terrible news, but, and I was like,

[00:02:57] Pat: I hit the New York Times and they all like jumped up and our table made a ruckus and you know, I didn't want it to be about me during that time 'cause it wasn't, but uh, it was a special moment for sure. A long time in the making.

[00:03:07] Nathan: Yeah. And I think to be able to celebrate it with people who get it right, who either have a similar dream or, you know, have achieved it themselves, uh, like yeah, a lot of times we hang out with friends or family back home. You know, they're like, oh, I'm so happy for you, or that kinda thing. Yeah. They don't truly get the amount of work Right.

[00:03:26] Pat: Or, you know, or what it means.

[00:03:27] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:03:28] Pat: Like everybody here gets it. Right. Everybody watching this gets it and it's like, wow. Like to celebrate with people. Yeah. Some who have done that before too and have gone through that journey, or others who want to go down that journey is, is really special. So thank you for hosting us.

[00:03:41] Oh yeah.

[00:03:42] Nathan: Thank you for coming. You killed it with the talk. Uh, all of that. It was really good. So give us the premise of the book because we're gonna weave that all the way through the story of building multiple seven figure YouTube channels. Yeah. Uh, which is pretty crazy. Like you've done it a couple of times.

[00:03:59] Yeah. Which, uh, is hard to do. And, uh.

[00:04:02] Pat: So what's the premise of the book? So lean learning how to achieve more by learning less information once used to be valuable. And I think if you're creator watching this, this is really important because there's enough information already, we're overloaded with it.

[00:04:15] Yet consumers, we are learning as if information is still that scarce resource. It's almost as if it were like a scarce food source back in like caveman days, right? You come across a carcass or like a, a fruit bush, you're like, I'm gonna take it all because for survival, you might not come across another one.

[00:04:29] So you take it all. And we're still treating information that way. That's how it used to be. When you and I first started writing and first started blogging, we were creating information that didn't exist before, right? And therefore, it was being consumed, it was being found. Um, now it's different. We're at this buffet line of information and we're stuffing our plates full because we think we need it all.

[00:04:49] And not only that, we're being force fed a bunch of stuff too, that is just getting rammed down our throats and we're still, we're still learning as much as we can. I mean, I can't tell you how many. People who I come across who have like they're subscribed to 25 different podcasts, right? And they feel behind when they're not able to keep up with it.

[00:05:06] Where are you getting time to actually take action? Learning feels like you're making progress, but true progress happens when you trade. Just in case learning for just in time learning. Mm, finding the information you need from the right resource at the right time for the right reason. And then using action to learn versus hypothetical or again, this feel good idea of just let me consume because it feels like I'm making progress when the other part of this is just getting over inspired, right?

[00:05:32] By learning too much, you're actually getting pulled in too many different directions. You probably already know what you have to do. And it's just this like mask for procrastination, really. Feel slightly called out.

[00:05:43] Nathan: Sorry. Do like, oh yeah, that's, uh, yep. I do exactly that. Right. Well, I'm calling myself out.

[00:05:48] Pat: Every other

[00:05:48] person

[00:05:49] in this world right now too.

[00:05:50] Nathan: Uh, a lot of people listening are going to know you from, you know, your journey building SPI over a long period of time. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, especially when you come to an event like this, you're gonna get stopped in the street or all of those things. Now, people stop you on the street for something entirely different.

[00:06:06] Well, I'm curious when you get stopped in, in the street and someone says like, oh, are you Pat Flynn? Which Pat Flynn, do you think they're, uh, they're talking to me? Well, usually it's, are you Deep

[00:06:15] Pat: Pocket Monster, which is the name of my. New Pokemon Channel. Relatively new, four years old now. Yep. Uh, we're at 1.6 million subscribers, over 300 million views, and in and of itself, it's a seven figure business now about something I didn't know about four years ago before, four years ago, before the pandemic.

[00:06:32] Right. And it's been a, it's been a fun ride and, and it's just getting started. The ceiling for how many people are curious about Pokemon versus entrepreneur, uh, stuff is way high.

[00:06:43] Nathan: I remember, I think it was you and I talking probably like 20 16, 20 17, about, you know, like the biggest audiences in business and entrepreneurship, and around that time people were getting to 50,000 email subscribers or a hundred thousand, you know, that was like, you were the biggest in the game.

[00:06:59] Right. And you're ama you know, at, at this huge level. And then you'd step over into like food or some of these other, uh, different niches, you know, where the, the total addressable market is just 10 times the size. Right. And someone's like, oh yeah, I've got 500,000 in my email list. And you're like. You know, it's just another

[00:07:15] Pat: level.

[00:07:15] Or like Mr. Peace, he's got, he's almost at, what, 400 million YouTube subscribers? Yeah. Like almost half a billion, which is, which is crazy and unheard of. Uh, but he's entertainment. Right? And I did pull a lot of inspiration from channels like him and Ryan Trahan for storytelling and, you know, getting in front of a more mass audience.

[00:07:31] Right? The demographic is different for Pokemon, you'd think it's a bunch of kids. It's actually not. Mm-hmm. It's people my age who once had allowance to spend on a pack of cards per week who have more than an allowance now and are reliving that nostalgia and then even bringing their families along.

[00:07:45] Mm-hmm. I mean, an interesting stat is that for my long form channel, deep Pocket monster, I think 60 to 65% of our audience is watching on a television. Oh, wow. Yeah. And the, the videos are an hour and a half long. These are, these are movies we're creating. Mm-hmm. I feel like that we're scripting the voiceovers after we're, we're story, we're, we're leaning into storytelling.

[00:08:06] We're learning about screenplay writing. Right. And injecting those things into the story. So much so that even if people don't care about Pokemon, they're still enjoying the show and, and still mm-hmm. You know, following the journey. Yeah.

[00:08:18] Nathan: So there, there's the phrase, once you're lucky twice, you're good.

[00:08:21] And I have heard people, and I know you've heard this too, where people say like, oh, pat Flynn built his business because, uh, he was lucky with the timing or whatever else. And I've known you for a long time. So I've seen like the insane preparation and effort that goes into, you know, every one of your business talks, uh, YouTube videos, all of these things over the years.

[00:08:43] But I think there's been a bit of a perception of like, oh, well it was, you know, pat could do that because of exactly when he started or the wave that he rode. Yeah. Um, is that something that you've heard and how does that, how does that land the deal? There's

[00:08:54] Pat: a little bit of a stigma there. I mean, when I first started and I started sharing my success with my architecture website and all that stuff from back in the day, uh, I used to be, I, I remember a comment very specifically.

[00:09:04] It was like, you are just a flash in the pan. Like this is just a flash in the pan for you. And I didn't even really know what that meant. Yeah. So I looked it up and it was like, oh, this is just a one-time thing that you're gonna never be able to do again. Yeah. And then even to a point where some people are saying you're a flash in the pan.

[00:09:18] Oh, like trying to personalize it to you. Yeah. I'm like, thanks. Who? I don't even know who you are yet. Back then, being inexperienced, I would take that personally. Right. And I'll be like, I'll show you. I'm going to, yeah. One day do something again. And actually that's what did inspire me a little bit. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:32] To just. Openly share my experiments. Mm-hmm. I started an iPhone app company that I then sold. I started, uh, a security guard training website, a food truck website. I was like, right. Not only gonna do it once, I'm gonna do it multiple times. Yeah. And show you all along the way now each time, because it was work in public mm-hmm.

[00:09:48] And building in public, uh, it wasn't always a straight line to success, but I always learned my way into finding how to make these things work. And I've continued to do that. And it worked in the Pokemon channel now as well. And it's just working really well. Yeah. Uh, with a much bigger addressable market.

[00:10:05] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's massive. What, tell me about the shift from like education content to entertainment content.

[00:10:11] Pat: It's interesting, however, I'm also noticing that in education we need to add some form of entertainment right in, in it as well. Now that, that doesn't mean you need explosions and, you know, a bunch of random, like quick cuts like coco melon to keep people, uh, on your channel.

[00:10:25] Although some people may argue you kind of do need that now. Uh. But better relatability, I think is more important. I mean, the information, like I was saying, is everywhere. Anything that could ever be said is probably already been said. And as I once said, on the stage a number of years back, there are no unique messages, only unique messengers.

[00:10:44] Mm-hmm. Uh, jota Sellner said that, and. I really believe that to be true. I remember playing on stage, uh, ludicrous wrapping Lama Lama Red pajama.

[00:10:55] Nathan: That was still one of my favorite openings to a conference talk ever. When you come out on stage and everyone's like, all right, what's Pat gonna, what do we got?

[00:11:04] And you're just like, calm and understated. And then you get out the book and then you start reading. And you, did you read the entire book?

[00:11:11] Pat: No, I read, I read a couple pages and then I said, this is how I read it to my kids. 'cause my kids were younger at the time, but this is how Ludicrous reads it. And he's on uh, like Q 1 0 6 or something in LA and he's like Lum rep and he's raping in his very style and I broke down Ludicrous style.

[00:11:27] Mm-hmm. And the point being like, he's reading the exact same thing I'm reading. It's the same information, right? It's the same story, but it's read in his unique way where you know exactly that that's ludicrous when he's reading 'cause he's bringing himself into it and his southern sort of Atlanta rap style into it.

[00:11:42] Um, so. Today when we're creating information, like, it's interesting, a lot of the Pokemon stuff that I do, which is more ed, uh, more, more entertainment, although there is some education in there as well for that audience, I'm taking the lessons there and I'm putting them back into the entrepreneurial education world that I'm in.

[00:12:00] Nathan: Yeah,

[00:12:00] Pat: right. Like what I'm learning about YouTube, especially titles and thumbnails and how to keep a person, uh, retained throughout a video and the stories that you tell. I mean, really at the base of all this is storytelling, right? I feel like this is gonna be the literal number one skill that any anybody needs to learn right now, especially with AI and everything becoming so commoditized and so easily accessible.

[00:12:19] And the truth is, again, if information were the answer, then we'd all be where we wanna be. Right. So it's not, so there's, it's much deeper than that.

[00:12:26] Nathan: Well, so let's go to something like retention. Yeah. On, on stage yesterday you showed and talked a lot about, you know, the retention curves in YouTube and how you studied it and what you learned.

[00:12:35] What are some of those things that you've learned from growing Deep Pocket, deep Pocket Monster and been able to take into, you know, all of your content, not just the entertainment, but also the

[00:12:44] Pat: business content? Yeah. So for example, one style of video that we do on the Pokemon Channel, uh, or I did, was I would buy these mystery boxes on eBay.

[00:12:51] Mm-hmm. For like $500, a thousand dollars. And I'd fill myself opening them. And this is really fun 'cause you don't know what's inside. And generally speaking, the mystery boxes on eBay is just trash, like throw away cards, someone's getting rid of a bunch of cards and they're trying to like, make whatever money they can.

[00:13:04] But it's still a fun video 'cause you never know what you get. So inherently there's retention in there. 'cause you're like, is PAC gonna make his money back or not? And generally speaking, I don't. Uh, however, going a little bit deeper into the retention graphs, which is really amazing about YouTube, they give you that data.

[00:13:18] And now, only now after several years, we're starting to see similar things in the podcasting world, which is great retention. I noticed on all of the videos that I did, like the first few people dropped off, meaning the graph went down. Mm-hmm. Whenever I showed up on camera and you're just like,

[00:13:37] Nathan: Ooh. Yeah, but the data doesn't lie.

[00:13:39] Okay. A little bit to the ego,

[00:13:40] Pat: but it makes sense. The promise of the video, this mystery box and what's inside. Why would they need to hear me talk about why I purchased this mystery box? And all the information about like, this is what intrigued me about the listing. Nobody cared about that. They just wanted to see what was inside.

[00:13:54] Mm-hmm. So that shifted our strategy to not. No longer having me do the intro, rather like let's just start with the box being opened, right? Like right there. And we start to see the retention graphs doing much better. And then a slower drop off. More videos published means more data. Get those reps In one of the videos we did had a box that had binders in it.

[00:14:12] And it was the first time we ever had like binders in a mystery box video. And we noticed that when I was showing the binders in the middle of the video, the retention graph was absolutely flat.

[00:14:21] Nathan: Which

[00:14:21] Pat: for anyone who doesn't know, flat retention is exactly what you want. That's great. That means people are into whatever it's you're talking about.

[00:14:27] Yeah. And like literal four minute period where nobody left. Mm-hmm. And that's insane. And so we looked at that and we're like, binders, what if we just bought binders? Like screw the mystery boxes. Let's just buy other people's collections if they're selling them. And we found a bunch of people who were, and we just did binder collection purchases.

[00:14:45] Those videos popped off. Hmm. We didn't know to do that until we got the data right that told us to do that. So the binders were really interesting. Now, one thing that I talk about in lean learning is this idea of experimentation, right? Like controlling the amount of additional stuff you have beyond the stuff that you're committed to.

[00:15:03] Because a lot of people will say, people like Alex Rami say, you just need to do the one thing and do it and lean into it and one thing only like nothing else. Okay? And I understand why that's there 'cause we kind of go everywhere when we allow ourself too much freedom. But I allow myself 20% of time for experimentation to play in whatever I do.

[00:15:22] When you look at a week, that's maybe Friday, right? Monday to Thursday, 80%. Friday 20%, the 80% is the commitments you already have, the things you're already supposed to be doing, the responsibilities you have, et cetera. This 20% allows me to scratch that itch. I call it the 20% itch rule. It allows me to play.

[00:15:39] Mm-hmm. And has permission. I have now permission to play and experiment and be creative and see what happens between 2017 and 2019. My 20% of time was building the switch pod. So this invention that's right with Caleb that I got to, you know, promote at the event a number of years back. So thank you for that.

[00:15:53] I got to meet Casey Nyst at Craft Commerce, which was cool. And he was like, it should be smaller and you should just keep it black. You don't need any of the calls. And we're like, done. Thank you. Yes, I remember that moment. I was actually, you were there and like he was in and out really quickly, but, but that was really helpful.

[00:16:07] Thank you by the way.

[00:16:08] Nathan: Yeah, it was

[00:16:09] Pat: funny,

[00:16:09] Nathan: like all the colors, he is like black, only black. That's all you need. Yeah.

[00:16:12] Pat: He's like, I don't really wanna be seen with like a bright color around this. Right. So just start with black. So that's how we did it. And we launched that in February of 2019 to half a million dollars in 60 days, which is really cool.

[00:16:22] And we used lean learning to do that 'cause we had never invented anything before. So we found the resources we need at the right time. I know, I'm going on a tangent here, but even at Craft and Commerce, there were a couple people who spoke on stage who had already Yeah. Uh, promoted and had, um, used Kickstarter mm-hmm.

[00:16:37] To be very, the guys from Studio Needs. Studio needs. That's right. Yep. And, um, we got to meet them and chat with them, and they're, and we were like, what? Were, what, what if you could do Kickstarter all over again? What's one thing you wouldn't wanna make sure you absolutely do? And they were like, well, we had too many pledge levels.

[00:16:51] It just caused Complicated it. Yeah. Yeah. It just caused too much havoc. So then when we did our Kickstarter, we just had two levels, like by one or by three. Mm-hmm. That's it. And it was so easy to manage and everything was fulfilled. Much better. Yeah. Um, so the experimentation mm-hmm. Right. We have these buckets of videos now, the collection, buying videos, the mystery boxes.

[00:17:10] We have our educational content, which was a bucket, but we always want to have like a little additional room for a play bucket. An experimental bucket. Yeah. So we did a video on the channel where I was just doing trick shots. I got, I got inspired by, uh, dude. Perfect. Yep. And I was like, I can use these Pokemon cards.

[00:17:24] There's like these energy cards that come in every pack that literally nobody cares about. So what if we did something fun with them and we tried to come up with a, with a story and the story was, uh, I would try to land one of these cards into a clothes pin and I would start the video like, dude, perfect.

[00:17:38] Does. They land a crazy cool trick shot right in the beginning to hook somebody, right? Mm-hmm. So in this video I share this at, at craft and commerce boom, I land this trick shot and it's amazing. My kids go, my, my daughter goes crazy. She's like, you did it. My son comes out and he goes, I bet you can't land it in this, which is a card saver.

[00:17:56] Like it's very almost impossible to throw it in there. And it like turned him into this little, it turned it into this little challenge, right? Can I land this energy card into this little card holder within 24 hours? Or, or also I lose this really expensive card to my son. So he becomes like this villain character in, in this world.

[00:18:13] Yeah. He does such a great job of it. He's, he's still the villain in my channel. Like, 'cause we keep going back and forth and when we film this video, the retention graph. Flat the entire time. And we even had a little notification from YouTube that said 82% of people are still watching this after 30 seconds, which like never happened.

[00:18:35] So we were like, oh my gosh, we're learning here. I don't think we wanna do trick shot videos all the time. We we're not gonna turn into a dude, dude. Perfect. But what do we learn from this? Well, people love the challenge and it opens up that retention to stay till the end to see what happens. So we said, okay, what if we combine the binders that people love mm-hmm.

[00:18:54] With the challenge? So that's where I did my first binder challenge video, where I had to try to complete a set of Pokemon cards in 24 hours or else I lose them all. And that video, not only did it have the highest retention graph that we had, and it was a much longer video too, so it added watch time that saw 11 million views and that one vi, the one single video has accounted for 80,000 additional YouTube subscribers.

[00:19:23] And I think in the analytics it was like $45,000 in ad revenue. That's wild. From one video. And so we're like, ooh. We have a formula now, right? We couldn't have started, we, we wouldn't have known to start with that formula.

[00:19:36] Nathan: But you're, you're, you have all these little learnings, right? You're like, that's interesting.

[00:19:40] That shows up in the data and you're piecing it together and, and just seeing like compounding returns over time as you keep learning. Correct.

[00:19:47] Pat: And so now we are, are sort of, um, uh, money bucket, if you wanna call it that, is these challenges mm-hmm. And different versions of them. Uh, a two hour set completion challenge, uh, a a 48 hour one, um, collaborations with others who wanna get involved with this, with this as well.

[00:20:04] And they each stack on each other and they each serve each other, right. Per a person who watches the fourth one will get served the first one, et cetera, et et cetera. And so now that we have this bucket that we know works really well, we can go and do what I like to call micro mastery within these. So I, micro mastery is a lesson in inside of lean learning where you take this thing that's big and often overwhelming.

[00:20:25] Mm-hmm. And you. Break it down into its little components. And in the world of business, for me, I used the example in the book, it was public speaking for me. I wanted to be a, a professional and amazing public speaker, but it was so overwhelming and there were so many resources and I wanted to, to do it all and then do, and do it really well.

[00:20:42] So number one, I hired a coach, I got Mike Pache to help me. Mm-hmm. And he was really influential in, in the beginning, having a mentor to kind of guide you. So you're not learning from a million resources, you're just learning from the one, but then getting those reps in and every time you do, you try to improve one little thing.

[00:20:55] Very atomic habits in James, clear in, in its approach. So for example, I tried to figure out, okay, if I were to learn one small thing in the world of. Public speaking that could help me more than anything. Like what's the highest leverage thing? What would it be? Storytelling. Mm-hmm. You could have no slides and tell a great story.

[00:21:14] Right. And still compel an audience. Um, just like how if you have a good story and terrible video quality could still be a great YouTube video. Mm-hmm. Right? So I learned that and I focused on that, hyperfocused on that, read about it, just found resources, how to mentor, teach me storytelling specifically and learn those frameworks.

[00:21:28] Another time it got, it got to the point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to this conference and I really want to nail what do I do with my hands? Because that was always a problem for me. I was like, and you put pocket. Yeah. So I was like, I'm just going to focus for the next month on learning what world class speakers do with their hands.

[00:21:45] Okay. And so I watched like a hundred TED talks and I just was like looking at their hands. You could crop it all out and you're just like, only the hands. That's all I'm focusing on. Right. And again, just hyper focusing on that for a period of time. It actually reminds me of my friend, uh, my friend James actually, who is an ultra marathon runner.

[00:22:02] And he's like a professional. He wants to win. Now, one way to improve with running is just to run a lot. Yep. But you can improve faster by micro mastering these little things. So he got to the point where he hired a film crew who had a, a ultra slowmo camera to film his heel hitting the ground so he could analyze the transfer of power and like the, all this stuff.

[00:22:23] Right. And he focused on that for like an entire month and had like scientists and like really smart people look at it and analyze it. And then he got to a point where he was able to do the thing he wanted to do with it and then now it's ingrained in him and he can move on.

[00:22:37] Nathan: Right. And he might have like a 10th of a percent increase in that.

[00:22:41] But he is like, look, this is the thing that I do hundreds of thousands of times. Correct. Over or millions of times over a marathon.

[00:22:46] Pat: So that's, that's a great point. 'cause if you just make an incremental change now over time mm-hmm That, that gap in difference, that Delta becomes huge. So that's why macro micro mastery works really well.

[00:22:58] Nathan: And so you're not trying to say, okay, I'm going to get better at all of public speaking. Right. 'cause you might have, if you tried to do that, you know, you get feedback on every aspect of your talk, you might get a step function improvement. That's just, you took care of all the basics.

[00:23:10] Pat: Yeah.

[00:23:10] Nathan: You're not making the most obvious mistakes anymore.

[00:23:12] Pat: Right.

[00:23:13] Nathan: But then you're saying, okay, I have to break it down and master this one part of it.

[00:23:17] Pat: Right. So if you wanna master, if you wanna get super pro at something Yeah. You don't necessarily need 10,000 hours. Right. I mean, you can get there just by putting the reps in. Sure. And you'll be a master at it, whatever it might be.

[00:23:27] Malcolm Gladwell, right. 10,000 hours, but you could learn something in two hours. Mm-hmm. You could master a micro component of what it is that you're doing. Two hours. If you're a YouTuber. What would it look like to master thumbnails? Okay. What would that do for you? It would do so much. Right? Because you know this like thumbnails are 90% of the right of it.

[00:23:46] The title thumbnail packaging around the thing that you're about to kinda share with the world. If you don't have a good title or thumbnail, you might as well not even have the video. Mm-hmm. Sadly, that's just the world of, of YouTube. So hyper-focusing on. Thumbnails. That's what, that's how Mr. Beast got big.

[00:24:01] I went to Vid Summit. Mm-hmm. Uh, in, in Dallas. And, uh, no, it was in LA but now it's in Dallas. Anyway, Mr. Beast was gonna speak there, and I was like, yes, I'm gonna absorb everything I can from Mr. Beast. I want it all. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:15] Nathan: His entire two hour talk was about thumbnails, because he knows that's what's most important.

[00:24:22] Yes. And everyone's like, gimme all the tips we wanna cover. Of course we'll touch on thumbnails, but all this, and he is like, no, no, no. It's just thumbnails.

[00:24:27] Pat: It's just thumbnails down to the colors being used in the contrast and the different iterations. And now we have the ability to split tests. Yeah.

[00:24:34] Even learning even faster in the world of YouTube. So that's, that's just an example.

[00:24:38] Nathan: So we talked about storytelling. You know, the packaging really matters. What are some of those things that. That you bring from the entertainment channel that you've done and everything you've learned, that you're like, look, if I were to take over running your YouTube channel, you know, you take over running a business YouTube channel, you're like, here are the three things that I'm gonna absolutely obsess

[00:24:56] Pat: over.

[00:24:56] So on the Pokemon channel, again, learning as we go. Mm-hmm. Uh, there was this set I was trying to complete called Pokemon 1 51. It celebrates the original 151 Pokemon from the Jodo region. Anyway, I try to complete the set in 151 minutes. 'cause that's kind of, that's kind of a cool hook. Yeah. I failed and the audience loves when I fail, by the way.

[00:25:15] So I tried it again and I was really, really concerned of failing a second time because I, and this, you're going to stores, to trading events, calling people up, right? All that. Right. Whatever I can do within 151 minutes, usually I'm at a convention or at some shops, uh, or, or things like that. I was so worried about second, uh, a second failure because I was like, I don't wanna like just bombard my audience with the same set and the same cards and the same challenge three times in a row.

[00:25:41] I failed the second time and I was like, well, I have to do it again. 'cause like I can't leave the audience hanging. But what was, what was really interesting is all the comments on that second video where I failed again, they were like, you have to get this right now. They're all invested, right? They're invested.

[00:25:57] And I did a third time and then I completed it. And it was this, like, what was really funny was the third video has more views than both the other videos combined. And what I learned was what we were doing across multiple videos was we were creating a story arc, much like how your favorite anime might be about something like one piece, for example, we're getting nerdy here, but one piece is about Louie in his search for the one piece, like the hidden treasure.

[00:26:25] That's the whole, that's the story. But within that, there are many stories or story arcs, right? Like Marine Ford Arc, which takes 50 episodes and you know, Fishman Island, which might take 40 episodes, there's over a thousand episodes. But there's these, there's these moments that have each have their own villain, their own mini story.

[00:26:45] Within that, this was my 1 51 story arc mm-hmm. Inside of this channel. And so what I'm taking from that is that instead of just like, here's an individual video about X, Y, Z, which is what most educational, uh, creators do, mm-hmm. It's, let me take you on this journey. For example, maybe. I'm trying to sell a product, it launches in one month, and I'm gonna share with you exactly how we're gonna launch this thing, and it's gonna take a few videos.

[00:27:14] In this video, we're gonna, we're gonna work on positioning statements because positioning statements for your product, the promise that you're making is really important. And I'm gonna learn about it. And you're gonna, you're gonna see it, and we're gonna find out in a month if this actually works, but this is the plan.

[00:27:26] Video number two, now we're gonna work on pricing. Here's my education around pricing. But it's built into this story arc that you've now created that gets people to subscribe because they know what's coming. Right. And that's the big secret. People don't subscribe because they like the video they just saw.

[00:27:42] That's what we think, but that's what a thumbs up or a heart is for. Mm-hmm. A subscription is, I wanna know what comes next.

[00:27:50] Nathan: Yeah. I'm, I'm opting into this journey.

[00:27:53] Pat: Correct? Correct. And that was my issue with my first YouTube channel. My first YouTube channel, which was Smart Passive Income, and it was about business, it was random.

[00:28:03] Mm-hmm. It was about business, but that's so general. People would, would subscribe for my podcasting tutorial, and then I'd do a video about SEO that they didn't care about. Then I do a video about affiliate marketing. Maybe some of them do, I think in my head that they do, but they initially subscribe because they want podcast stuff and then when they don't get that next, unfortunately what that does is YouTube goes, oh, the subscribers here aren't watching this video that this, this YouTuber created, so we're not gonna send it out.

[00:28:28] Right. To more people.

[00:28:29] Nathan: So I'm thinking about applying this in in business. There's things that both you and I have done of like personal business challenges that we've built in public. I mean, kit was started that way. Yeah. Right? Yeah. The web op challenge of, gimme six months, lemme see if I can pull this off.

[00:28:45] It was in a, I mean now it would do very well on YouTube, but like that kind of content. But you know, did it in blog form, you would do it with the challenges of like building the niche websites or, or things like that. Yeah. So there's that category that you can tell your own story as you learn something.

[00:29:01] But I'm also realizing in business content. You could have the same recurring characters where, like, like on this show for example, you know, I do a lot of coaching as we get up on the board. Mm-hmm. I could bring people back and then, you know, get the, I don't know how often I could bring them back, but, you know, get the viewers hooked on like, oh, how is, um, Jay's business going?

[00:29:23] You know, he's on this journey to get to 2 million a year for Casper Studios, his AI development agency. Yeah. You know, he was at 500,000 a year when he came on here was the advice, like, you know, going on from there. He's markers. Right. And then I guess you could also then later do a super cut of like the full, you come back and, and say like, okay, we're now two years in.

[00:29:43] Yeah. Here's, here's Jay's entire journey. Yeah. And it's like two and a half hours long. Actually, we did

[00:29:47] Pat: that with, with another arc that we created. We tried to collect one of every Pokemon, there's 1,025 and that took eight videos to do. Okay. And we were like. What would happen if we just put all these videos together?

[00:29:59] Yeah. In one video to tell the whole story. And we just took out those moments where we're like, next week, right? Check it out. We just went right into it. Yep. That video is four hours and 37 minutes and we're like, is this gonna hurt our channel? Like what's gonna happen? 3.3 million people have seen that and it has accounted for an additional $50,000 in revenue.

[00:30:19] And it is right. It is an, it is a starter video for many people who then dive into the rest of our channel. So people are watching much longer. And again, most people are watching on the television. And I've also found, and this is very common for channels with very long videos, people are putting them on before they go to bed and they're just, it's just background.

[00:30:36] Which is great for retention. Right. I will say absolutely. That's, that's, oh, that's, that's fascinating. Yeah. So they'll put it on and it's just like, oh, it's just background. Like, I do that with friends at home. Mm-hmm. My wife and I just have friends playing.

[00:30:47] Nathan: Oh yeah. You know, I mean, I've watched all of friends so often because of exactly that.

[00:30:51] Yeah. Joey Joey's just, you know, our buddy. Right, exactly.

[00:30:55] Pat: You had mentioned recurring characters. Mm-hmm. And I wanna talk about that because in, in my videos I have recurring characters. Some of them are store shop owners who are now famous. People go into these stores and want their autograph now, which is pretty good.

[00:31:06] Oh. So like, are there stores that your channel has helped, like, put on the map? A hundred percent. Which is great. And they're like, pat, you've done so much for us. And I'm like, no, you've done so much for me. And they like, hook me up and they like, whatever. It's, it's awesome. Yeah. Um, everybody can win. This is pretty, this is cool.

[00:31:21] But there are even inanimate things. That have become quote unquote recurring characters. So I told, I told this at, at craft commerce we, because a lot of our challenges are based on time, I bought a kitchen timer on Amazon and put Googly eyes on it, and we just named it Steve. We even have like foam eyebrows, so it could be Matt or Sat or whatever.

[00:31:41] And Steve has now become like a popular request and character. When I take Steve with me, literally a kitchen timer, um, people wanna take pictures with it. We're making a plushie, Steve, that our audience can buy. We're in the middle of manufacturing that right now. We have merch with Steve on it. Mm-hmm.

[00:32:01] And. He's almost like the villain because I'm up against time. Right, right.

[00:32:05] Nathan: So I imagine for you, like you've personified, you know, an unknown or like a, an inanimate unknown thing, right? Like, oh, we're just race against time. And now you, you actually have, you can cut to Steve and Steve could be like gleeful at how far behind you are, or upset that you're about to solve this.

[00:32:22] Yeah. We've had little stories where like, Steve is at the

[00:32:25] Pat: beach. We like literally put him on the towel and like he's, we just film him like, it's literally a kitchen timer dude. Like, it's so stupid and cool and say we're world building here. So in your world, here in the Nathan Berry show, like what things could you have that people can know about Right.

[00:32:43] Beyond just the guest? Like maybe you have a, like a giant ass piece of, of chalk. It's like, it's like. Comically huge. And it's like, here take, take the, the big ass chalk and Right. Do the, and it's just like, now you can sell a merch line. Well, 'cause

[00:32:59] Nathan: we could do a, a, you know, a very random thing, right? When we're drawing on the board, uh, we've got these pieces of paper that go up there and it's black.

[00:33:07] Turns out markers that write consistently on black paper are actually a pain. If I were to open that drawer right there, you would see about 200 markers in there as we've tested every different variety. Dude, that's so good. So, so you

[00:33:20] Pat: cut to, when you're going into this drawer, you open it and you see the 200 markers.

[00:33:24] And you don't say anything about it. You don't say like, here are the 200 markers. Because it just becomes a thing that, like, if you know, you know? Right. It's almost like the secret menu at Inn Out. Yeah. If you ever come to the, to California or wherever there's an Inn out and somebody is not, like, if, if you're new and you've never been to Inn Out and you talk to somebody who's been at Inn Out, they're gonna tell you about the secret menu.

[00:33:42] Yeah. Like, you need to get an animal style or get your animal style fries. It's like if you know, you know, and we all have the opportunity, a,

[00:33:49] Nathan: what is it? A si, a double, a single double protein style. Like there's all kinds of

[00:33:54] Pat: stuff. You can get a a hundred by a hundred if you want.

[00:33:57] Nathan: I don't even know what that is.

[00:33:58] So five

[00:33:58] Pat: by five is five patties. Okay. So a hundred by a hundred is a hundred patties. It make, it would make for good content, I guess, but it would be, but yeah, the world building that you're, you're creating a sense of brand by inserting these little things that are unique to you because of just what you have.

[00:34:16] Right. Maybe the microphones, maybe you name them like, this is Mike and. I don't know. Just, and that's how you find out with those things that you, that they're just, they're just dumb. And, and they, sometimes the audience makes those things up, right? Like with my, um, with my shorts channel, so I have a shorts channel.

[00:34:34] Within a year we were able to get it to, uh, 3.5 billion views and it's generating about 10 million views a day now. So I have 10 million people every day watching me. Mm-hmm. But not my face. It's, it's my hands open up a pack of cards every single day. And my thumbs are weird looking. They're like, Megan Fox thumbs.

[00:34:53] That's what I say. 'cause it makes 'em some a little bit better.

[00:34:55] Nathan: The most attractive person with odd

[00:34:57] Pat: thumbs, Nintendo thumbs that like Brack Hill something or other is like the scientific term, whatever. Um. People were like, dude, your thumbs are gross, dude. And so that

[00:35:07] Nathan: might make you be like, oh, I guess I won't.

[00:35:09] Yeah. I started like, watch me open car. Like how do I hide my thumbs while I open car? Which

[00:35:13] Pat: that would be entertaining in itself. That would, that would be, and I have like a funny side story to that, but I instead decided to embrace that. I'm like, Hey, my thumbs look like Diglett, which is a Pokemon that kind of looks like those thumbs and they're digit thumbs now.

[00:35:26] And now when I go to events and I get asked and even paid now to come and sign autographs, I'm signing Diglett cards all day long. Wow. Because of, that's the connection, the joke that you, you embraced and you made a, made a meme. And every once in a while I bought these, uh, thumb covers from Amazon that make it look like real thumbs.

[00:35:43] And I put them on and I open the cards and I don't say a word. And it's like, people are just like, they're in this world now and they get it.

[00:35:50] Nathan: Right. So, so someone just scrolling through and they're seeing it for the first time, they're not gonna know it all. But other people are gonna be like, oh, if you know, you know, and they're like, pat, those aren't your thumbs.

[00:35:59] Pat: You know, like where, where your actual thought or somebody might ask a question and then. My community will come in and say, uh, the new guy, check out the new guy here. Or you'll learn, just keep watching. You know, they'll like fight for you on that. Um, it's just so interesting. It's, it's, it's, it's belonging.

[00:36:14] It's brand connection. It's human. Mm-hmm. Is really what it is. It's hu it's, it's making, it's going back to how things used to be before the internet. Right. But on the internet now.

[00:36:25] Nathan: Oh man. There's so much I wanna dive into. Let's talk about the Shorts channel, because you built to a million, uh, subscribers on YouTube with the main channel.

[00:36:34] How long did that take?

[00:36:35] Pat: We got to a million in seven months. That's wild. And then the shorts channel.

[00:36:41] Nathan: It's completely separate. I didn't link to it from anything. I Why didn't you link to it? Was that, is that Pat the experimenter? Yes. Just being like, I want a clean

[00:36:49] Pat: test here. Well, two reasons. Two reasons.

[00:36:50] This is the most common question. So I have, I have my long form channel, deep Pocket monster. Mm-hmm. And then I have my short form, uh, channel. And it could have been very easy to just be like, Hey, it's Pokemon cards. Like everybody go check on my new channel. Audience overlap is substantial. Yes, but no.

[00:37:05] Okay. Because the reason it, I felt it's different. Like the general rule is same audience, same channel, different audience, different channel. Even for podcasters, do I put my podcast on my YouTube channels? You know, whatever. People who watch my long form videos and sit on the couch with their families over dinner yep.

[00:37:22] For an hour and a half, is not the same person necessarily as the person who is in their bed. Doom scrolling at night. Right and just wants a quick fix. Half my audience is on the toilet. I've called them out on it, like in the videos. It's really funny. They're like, how'd you know? And you're like, I know.

[00:37:38] And so my theory was just like, it's just a different audience. Like it's a different behavioral audience. Yes, it's the same topic. There is some overlap there. However, there's still a lot of people who don't know the other channel exists, and I wanted to prove that I could do this without getting any help from the outside.

[00:37:55] So there is no team, it's just me. I'm editing these videos and the way that I approach this is in a very lean learning way. I said, I wanna learn how to do this. So I'm gonna give myself 60 days. I'm gonna publish daily, which means I'm gonna get the reps in. Yeah, I'm gonna base my wins off of uploads, not views.

[00:38:14] Whatever the thing that you can control. The thing that I can control, 'cause I can't control views. I can of course consciously try to get better and get more views, but if I get to day 60 and I've gone daily, I've won. Mm-hmm. And I'll probably learn something at least along the way, whether this thing works or not.

[00:38:29] Day 30, going daily with opening packs, the videos are getting maybe 300 to 500 views per day. Not much in the grand scheme of things. And the old pat would've been like, okay, try to, it's not like this is, I'm bad at this. But again, the goal wasn't the views, the goal is the uploads. However, something interesting I've noticed did happen at day 30.

[00:38:49] My editing time personally for these videos went from 45 minutes to about 12 minutes. So I was, I actually, you got good at it. I was getting much better. Yeah. And learning the shortcuts and all this stuff, just simply because I was repeating myself, but I also had 30 pieces of data that could teach me some stuff.

[00:39:05] And one thing I learned, a small pattern that I discovered again. I think a big theme of this is look at your analytics today. Yeah. Uh, was that the videos where there was a sticker, a price tag on the pack, had higher views, something visual? Yeah. In the first second that people could see this different.

[00:39:23] And when I was in person interacting Okay. At a card shop, held people till the end, there was just something about it. I didn't need to know what. Mm-hmm. But I just saw that that was the case. Day 35, I published a video that incorporates those two things and I guess I hit the right wave and maybe there's a little luck involved.

[00:39:43] Sure. But that video hit 750,000 views in 24 hours. What did it go on to do? Uh, I think 15 million views. Uh, over time it still gets views. Yeah. Um, but then all the videos, everything elevated from there, everything elevated from there. And it was just like. People started to use it in their video, the same song, and like all, it just, it just took off.

[00:40:10] Nathan: Well, so I mean, again, you're, you're finding you're putting in enough or putting out enough pieces of content, enough reps so that you can actually learn from it. Right. Because if someone's doing this once a month Right. Or that sort of thing, you just, you get 12 reps per year. Cool. And you can't find a pattern in that.

[00:40:27] Pat: No.

[00:40:27] Nathan: There are the chances of finding, you would have to be very lucky to find a pattern in that

[00:40:31] Pat: quantity is key. I know people say quality is key, but in the beginning, quantity is key. And I know that's a little controversial, but I'm not saying sacrifice is value. Yeah. But sacrifice a little quality to get quantity.

[00:40:45] So you get more, more data and more and more reps in and yeah, the short, the short channel just continued to, to explode and blow up. I started to learn even more things. For example, uh, the monetization on YouTube. Uh, at the time, this was before, uh, before shorts were up to three minutes. It was 60 seconds or less.

[00:41:03] Okay. It's now changed, but back then it was, if your video was 60 seconds or less, it was a short and you can monetize it as a short and the monetization's different. I mean, the RPMs are like peanuts compared to the long form channel, so I still think long form is king, but with that many views, they were able to stack up.

[00:41:20] So I'm generating currently about 18 to $20,000 a month in off the shorts channel. Off just the shorts channel alone. Yeah. Now, I'm also repurposing these videos on other channels like Instagram and TikTok, and I found that on TikTok, in order to monetize you have to be over 60 seconds. Oh, okay. In order to qualify for monetization.

[00:41:39] So what I ended up doing was taking my 59 and a half second video from YouTube and literally just slowing down the last like, part of it until it extended over a minute. Yeah. And then published that video on TikTok. Which then unlocked an additional five to eight K per month on TikTok from the same videos?

[00:41:58] Technically not the same, because the ending is just extended just a little over. Right. But that's how I was able to kind of take advantage of both. A lot of people ask me about Instagram, what's the Instagram done for you? I've earned $30 from Instagram. Okay. From a bonus reel. I am, I I was not lucky enough to get in before they removed.

[00:42:18] They ended that. Yeah. Yeah. So there are some people who are sort of legacy put into that program that's similar to the others, but it's, it's nothing. It's like, I don't have, I don't like meta and Instagram really nicely. I mean, they

[00:42:32] Nathan: not your favorite. Not my favorite. So I wanna dive into the monetization be and, and the profit margin on this and the team and all kinds of things.

[00:42:39] But before that, you have this jingle for the shorts. Yeah. Uh, what, like, how did that come about? And then how important do you think that is for, you know, hitting one, 1.7 million subscribers in social?

[00:42:53] Pat: Oh, 1.7 million subs on YouTube, 1 million on Instagram, 1.5 on TikTok, 10 million views a day hearing this jingle.

[00:43:00] Um, and, and, and there's also a secondary jingle, which is at the end, if I get a good card, it's a good jingle. If it's a bad card, like the same voiceover woman, what's the jingle? Uh, it depends. I've actually created like a library Okay. Of essentially disses. Like, it's gotten so bad that like, it's like, wow, you smell like losing or like, um, like, uh, have you talked to your therapist about this?

[00:43:25] And it's like, that's how the video ends when I get a bad card. Right? Yeah. And it's so funny 'cause I'm imagining this like. Voiceover artist. Her name's Kim from Australia. I hired her through Music radio Creative. Like, she's a very famous singer. Okay. And like imagining her in a sound booth, like you smell, like losing it is just like the most hilarious thing to me.

[00:43:46] Uh, but anyway, so I, I had these jingles made, but I didn't have that library at first. I just had the initial intro. The, the initial one is the, should I open it? Yeah. Should I open it or should I keep it sealed? There's a very like raw video or a audio of me singing that. Mm-hmm. And then giving it to music radio creative to turn into what it became, which is sort of like a fifties sort of like jingle that you'd hear on like a commercial.

[00:44:07] Like, you know, it, it, it, it was purposefully done to be an earworm. Yep. It has become that, and it is definitely something that auditorily marks this as my video. Mm-hmm. And every day people watch these videos and it becomes ingrained in them. Mm-hmm. So much so that now people are saying or singing this when they are at card shops.

[00:44:30] Mm. And, and I'm not even there. They're just like, before they open it. And so your brand is just spreading, it's spreading, spreading so much now that it is become a parody for many. Like it's it they're taking this audio and using it in different, in different ways. And for example, there was a guy who did a video that went pretty viral where he was trying to lose weight every time he would grab a bag of chips, should I open it?

[00:44:50] Should I keep it sealed? And it was just, it just, and then he like, sets it aside. Puts aside, right. This is how I lost 50 pounds. Uh, I, there was a DJ who was like performing at a rave in front of 15,000 people and he inserted that jingle into his set. Played it and then opened a pack of cards on stage, which was, which was awesome.

[00:45:09] Uh, and he and I connected, he invited me to come out and do it. Yeah. Like with him. And I just, the timing didn't work out. Uh, and then I showed this at the event, there were like, I just showed a picture of a coffin. Everybody

[00:45:19] Nathan: lost it because as soon, like, you didn't even play the re yet. I didn't have to say anything.

[00:45:24] Everyone's just like, what?

[00:45:26] Pat: And then I played it and it's this guy, a mortuary who's like, should I open it or should I keep it sealed? And he is just like, I think, I think we're gonna keep this one sealed. Yeah. So, so it's been pretty cool. It has been important mm-hmm. For distinguishing it from other channels.

[00:45:40] I'm not the first channel to open packs. Right. Like this has been done for years. Mm-hmm. But I was able to find a way by just spending a little bit of time to be creative, to add my flavor to it. Mm-hmm. And what's been really interesting, I haven't talked to many people about this, but there's been so many now, other Pokemon creators who have put jingles in their shorts.

[00:46:00] Every time the comment section blasts them for it, they're like, this is just a deep pocket monster clone. Yeah. Like you're just a clone. Like try to be creative a little bit. And I feel bad 'cause I, I, I get where they're trying to do this and Right. 'cause they're

[00:46:13] Nathan: like, oh, this works. I'm learning from another channel.

[00:46:14] All of that. Right. But your audience is like,

[00:46:17] Pat: even though the lyrics are different. Yeah. Well this is just a second. This is just like a dollar store version of, of two pocket monster. Right. Uh, and I feel bad and I try to help them. And you know, there's been some people who have learned, uh, there's a guy named Spot, uh, Scott's PC for personal collection, Scott's pc, he has a a, um, a gotcha machine, which is a, in Japan, if you go, there's like the vending machines.

[00:46:40] You put a quarter in and you get a ball. And that's how he starts his video. So we put a quarter in, open the ball and it says, I'm gonna open packs until I find. A cha Art or something. Mm-hmm. And so he's taken this idea of at least some reason in the beginning to stay till the end. For me, it's the inherent question of, well, am I gonna lose money or not on this thing?

[00:46:59] Yeah. Should I open it or should I keep it sealed? Right. That's my version. He's found his version, which is great. And so again, there's, there's a line between imitation mm-hmm. And inspiration. And it's gonna be different for every niche and every creator, but you gotta find it.

[00:47:14] Nathan: So did you have the jingle from the very beginning of the, of the short channel?

[00:47:18] No. How, how far in did you add the jingle? I think it was 10 days in. Okay. So it came pretty quick. But what was the thing that, that made you say. I need to try this. It was just a random idea. Okay. Like I, it's part of that like

[00:47:31] Pat: 20% experimenting, you know? Yeah. Completely. Um, and if you go back into the history of the channel, you, you'll see it when it drops.

[00:47:38] And it wasn't like episode one back then. Right. But when I did it the second time, I was like, day two, day three, day four.

[00:47:45] Nathan: And so was it you, you just put it out on one? Were you thinking you were gonna do it on all the additional, all the, the future ones? Or is it, you saw how it performed and you're like, well, let's try it day two and see, I was, I, I

[00:47:55] Pat: had got it done to hopefully be something that I could put in there.

[00:47:59] Yeah. Uh. It just, it just stuck after the, my initial, my very first video was me, um, going to Barnes and Noble buying cards and then opening them in the car.

[00:48:11] Nathan: Okay.

[00:48:12] Pat: Like the idea being like, I couldn't wait to get home to open these things. Mm-hmm. Like I'm that much of a degenerate that I have to like open these things now.

[00:48:19] And I positioned it and I was like, this doesn't feel right. Like it, it's a little too self-deprecating, but it's also relatable. Mm-hmm. Uh, but then I tried another thing, another thing, and then I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna, I'm try this jingle to kind of create the idea of being like, can I create a show?

[00:48:33] Mm-hmm. So that everybody can kind of know like, oh, 'cause I was trying to find the thing that I could become known for. Mm-hmm. And like the open it in the car guy. 'cause he can't, he is no patience guy. Doesn't make sense or I didn't want that, but like the should I open it guy. Right. Sue? What could you become known for?

[00:48:53] How could people in one sentence share your stuff? Mm-hmm. Right. I was the passive income guy, and then I became the podcasting guy for a long time. I helped people like Tim Ferriss started a show and so many others. Uh, and I was known as the podcasting guy, right? Chris Ducker was the, the virtual assistant guy for so long, um, because they kept just hitting the same message over and over again.

[00:49:12] You don't become the guy by or the gal by sharing a hundred different messages, right? You hit the same message over and over and over again.

[00:49:20] Nathan: Okay. So then let's talk monetization, because you've always been transparent about numbers all the way, you know, that was a big thing with bis. Yeah. Income reports do the income reports and people would be like, wait, how much did you earn from Bluehost this month?

[00:49:31] How, you know, Bluehost, each of these things. Yeah, it was a lot of money. Oh

[00:49:37] Pat: yeah. I was making, at its peak, it was making six figures a month just from that one affiliate deal. It was absolutely wild. Um, and then their customer service just went through crap. And then I was like, I mean, I'm sure they're great now.

[00:49:46] Probably, but maybe, I don't know. Yeah. I've moved on, but, uh, they were great and then they weren't, and then that hurt me Yeah. As the person promoting that company. And so I eventually stopped,

[00:49:55] Nathan: moved on from that. But, so how do you think about monetization in the entertainment world, right? Because people aren't making the same level of like business transaction where it's like, oh, I'm signing up for a hosting company that I'm gonna be with for like eight years.

[00:50:07] And so the LTV is incredible. You obviously have the monetization from YouTube, but what is, you know, what is the business side of Deepak

[00:50:16] Pat: and Monster look like? Oh, there's,

[00:50:17] Nathan: there's

[00:50:17] Pat: business. I'm sure, you know, and I have this unique position of having done business and entrepreneurship and working with other companies.

[00:50:22] You know, what the attention is worth. Yes. And I also wouldn't know to, to partner what it means to partner with businesses. Mm-hmm. Um. Fast forward. I'm even an advisor for a couple collectible related companies now. Oh, wow. Like how an advisor for Kit. Yeah. Um, so like there's still par, there's a lot of parallels even in the entertainment world, when people think of monetization in the entertainment world, they generally think of brand deals.

[00:50:44] Yep. Right? Like not in, in addition to YouTube ad revenue, it's brand deals. Getting a company to pay you a lot of money to be sponsored to sponsor the video or replace brand the video or, or whatever it might. Uh, it might be. Right. Um, so that's one thing we do. And, and I do that, you know, I, at this point in the long form channel, uh, to give you some metrics I can charge up to, I've charged up to $30,000 for a sec 62nd ad spot for one video.

[00:51:08] Mm-hmm. And this is you doing an actual ad read, not just an ad read. Yeah. And in general it's for a company that's related to the industry. Mm-hmm. So another, a retail card show shop or some event or something like that. Um, so, so that, that does exist. Uh, affiliate marketing exists. Yeah. In entertainment space.

[00:51:25] So. One of my first videos that popped off was a video, a how to educational video about how to correctly store your cards in a binder. And that was the positioning of it. The idea was just like, I wanna teach people how to, you know, keep their cards safe. Yeah. But me knowing the importance of title thumbnail, positioning, the title of this was the Correct way to store your cards in a binder, and then on the thumbnail said, you're doing it wrong.

[00:51:52] So if you're a collector and you see that you don't think that you're doing any of that wrong when you store your cards, but now this opens up the question.

[00:51:59] Nathan: Yeah. Well now I'm wondering, you know, I'm either like, no I'm not. Yeah. And I'm gonna watch the video to preview that I'm not doing it wrong, or I'm like, oh, am I, am I right?

[00:52:08] And you really only end up in one of those two camps.

[00:52:10] Pat: Exactly. Exactly. So this video blasted off right now 3.8 million views on a how to store your Pokemon cards. Mm-hmm. Like in a binder video. Uh, and I recommend a binder in that video as like the best solution. So you don't practice bad binder behavior, which has become this phrase, a part of the culture of the brand now.

[00:52:30] Right. That I purposefully put in there knowing, because I knew and from the education world and in business, that if we create frameworks, if we create these memorable alliterations, right, people are more likely to, to absorb them. So I did the same thing in the entertainment channel, like bad binder behavior, and it's this phrase now that everybody uses when they see somebody else.

[00:52:47] They'll even comment it on other people's channels who aren't properly storing their cards. Like I feel a little bad, but it's also really awesome. Um, so that company has an affiliate program and so I signed up for it and I promoted it. And we have made nearly half a million dollars for them. Wow. And so I get a commission on that.

[00:53:07] I think they're in the uk so I've made I think 60,000 pounds. Mm-hmm. Like in take home money from that. Uh, which is awesome. But I also know. Because I've done business with companies like yours before that when you are an affiliate for a company and you do well for them, when you do volume, it opens up doors to conversations that Right.

[00:53:25] You couldn't have had before. So I reached out to 'em, I said, Hey, I'd love to work with you even more deeply. And they're like, we know who you are. You've made us a lot of money. What do you want, Uhhuh? And initially I was like, well, it'd be really cool if we had a branded binder, like my logo on it. We could sell it through your website so I don't have to deal with any of the, the shipping and stuff.

[00:53:43] And they were like, totally, we're down to do that for sure. And they did that. We sold a lot of them. And I even had them put an expression in the binder in gold Foil when they open it, it reads good binder behavior.

[00:53:55] Nathan: Yeah. So you were like closing that loop. Yeah. Someone, someone bought it and they're all the way through and then they'll be telling the story to their friends or whatever.

[00:54:01] Like why? It says Good binder behavior. Yeah, they'll,

[00:54:03] Pat: they'll be at a card show or something and open it and be like, why does that say that? Or they might be like, oh, you watched Deep Pocket Monster, or whatever. Right. It's kind of cool, but I took it even further. When I did this story arc that I talked about earlier of collecting one of every Pokemon.

[00:54:16] Mm-hmm. I was like, wouldn't it be cool if we can put them all into one single binder and make it kind of comically big? And I asked them, I was like, could you make like a four and a half foot tall binder where every page has 64 cards? And they were like for you. Absolutely. Yeah. And that was really smart of them too.

[00:54:34] I mean, they spent a lot of money and did a lot of research and found companies that would, they basically crafted it by hand. 'cause there's no machinery that can do that. And no one's gonna master. It's not like, oh, let's make 10,000 units. No, exactly. It's not economically, it doesn't make sense to manufacture that, but economically it made sense for them to work with their top affiliate.

[00:54:51] Right. To insert this into the story. And now it's in every video in that series. Mm-hmm. Vaultex is now being promoted again and again, not by a 62nd ad, but literal integration into the story that's being told. Not even just like in the background. It's a part of the story. We even named this binder Chad.

[00:55:08] 'cause it's like a giga Chad.

[00:55:10] Nathan: And, um, well, I think what's interesting about that is it goes all the way back to not just the storytelling, because it's this, this bigger arc that you're on, but also the thumbnails. Yeah. Because now you can have thumbnails where people are like, well this looks photoshopped.

[00:55:24] Like that binder can't possibly be real. Oh. And so I click in, I'm like, that's, you actually have a four foot tall binder.

[00:55:31] Pat: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that was very much part of the conversation. It needs to be big because it's gonna look like so obnoxious on the thumbnail. And, uh, I have to credit my producer Dan, uh, Norton on that.

[00:55:43] And, and speaking of team, like he's my producer. Mm-hmm. He's behind the scenes, like helping me with the storytelling a lot. And he's diving into a lot of books and all these kinds of things. He helps manage the editing team, which is one person, uh, actually two people now. We just hired our, another one, and then we have a Discord server guy.

[00:56:00] Mm-hmm. Like, that's it. It's the most profitable thing I've ever done. What's top line? Revenue app for this business? Whatever you wanna share. Um, top line revenue. Well, I can give you revenue. It, there's a lot of monetization. Yeah. Happening from all kinds of different places. Uh, from brand deals, sponsorships.

[00:56:18] There's like the, the, the short channel. We haven't even talked to events as well in two weeks. I'm hosting an event in Tampa and F 5,000 people are coming. We've sold our 5,000 ticket while I was here. Wow. Um, I spent $0 in marketing for that. Um, it's, it's our third year. First year. This, this is the first year it'll be profitable.

[00:56:39] Yeah. But like, you know, events aren't necessarily going to be profitable. But again, that's my other book, superfan in Action, bringing the Community Together. And we have 800 vendors there. There's, it's gonna be a fun time. We're gonna play like prices, right. Style games. Except instead of groceries, it's Pokemon cards.

[00:56:56] And it's like, we're gonna nerd out on this. And people in the answer are like, what the heck? This is stupid. Yeah. And we're like, you can think what you want. Yeah. We're having a good time. Right. Uh, the YouTube channel and all the brand deals and everything like that, I would guess it's, it's a, it's a little over a million dollars a year at this point.

[00:57:13] That's amazing. From stuff. I, I'm a 42-year-old man opening cards with cartoons on them and having the time of my life. But I,

[00:57:21] Nathan: I, what's so cool to me about it is it's everything that I've always known you for, which is picking something that you love. Mm-hmm. Becoming completely obsessed with it. Saying, I'm gonna learn everything I can about this.

[00:57:34] Not in a like academic way, but in a very, very practical, like, how can we test and iterate and learn and go from there and then just go so deep on, on mastery and to do it with fans in a community. Yeah. And

[00:57:48] Pat: I mean, the deepness is in the serving of that audience. Mm-hmm. Wherever I go, I want to be remembered for providing so much value in that space.

[00:58:00] Yeah. Like my mom always taught me, like, leave the room that you're in cleaner than when you left. Yeah. And that's what I'm doing in the niches that I'm in.

[00:58:06] Nathan: Who you really remind me of is Jesse Cole. From Savannah Bananas. And so I, I love Jesse. He's amazing and his whole thing, you know, fans first that is Yep.

[00:58:16] His phrase that he's built, uh, they're selling out 80,000 Yeah. People. And so I, I've known Jesse Pro probably for, I dunno, seven years, uh, eight years, something like that. And, uh, I first met him actually when we were flying to an event. And so I bordered a Phoenix to Cabo flight and there's this guy in a yellow tuxedo on the plane and like, Hey, I, you know, he was sitting a couple rows ahead of me and so I saw him come in and I was like, I don't know who this guy is, but I'm almost certain we're going to the same event.

[00:58:47] You know, and this is like a business mastermind with like, I dunno, a hundred people or something. And so as we're, you know, waiting for the shuttle to meet him and you know, he's like, yeah, I got this baseball team, uh, that used to be called the. Savannah Sand Nats. That was Sand Nats. That was the, I know, that's what it was.

[00:59:03] That was the previous name. Savannah Bananas is what I know them for now. Yeah. And so he bought the team and they re renamed it. People were super mad at them for renaming the team, and I'm like, they're called the Sand Nats. Like, what is this? Uh, anyway, so, you know, he was just always doing this and, and just this deep obsession with storytelling and entertainment and how to hook and hold attention.

[00:59:23] Um, the first Savannah Bands game that I went to, they were already popular, like at this point, you know, um, maybe 500,000 followers on social. Mm-hmm. Um, that, that kind of thing when I went to a game. Uh, but they were still playing regular baseball and just adding in all this extra Yeah. Entertainment. And so it was at their home stadium?

[00:59:41] It was probably, yeah. 3000 people. Right. And then it's just like compounded. And you see his obsession with learning and iterating. Yeah. And serving fans. And now, yeah, the Clemson stadium was 81,000 people. They just did a huge thing at Disneyland. That's so cool, dude. Like it's just all of this and he's like, Hey, there's actually not stadiums big enough.

[01:00:03] And like taking it on from there. But it's just this obsession with serving people, entertaining people, and putting them first. Yeah.

[01:00:11] Pat: The world has changed in terms of how we as creators can serve our audience, because before we were serving them through information. Mm-hmm. We were able to, through our expertise, through our own experiences, through our own case studies, share things that weren't available before.

[01:00:25] Now pretty much whatever you wanna learn how to do, there's a resource to learn how to do that. And so how can we get our audiences to come to us? Mm-hmm. Together, those resources. And it's gonna be through personal, your personal brand and the way you show up. It's, it's who you are. It's this world building that you create.

[01:00:42] It's how, how do you, how do you become like the anime people choose to watch? Because something about that anime is relatable. Right? There's a reason why most animes take place. Japanese animes take place in high schools. Yeah. It's because high school is a moment of a person's life. In Japan, at least, that was probably the best time of their life because people in Japan, when they move on to the workforce, it's just a grind.

[01:01:06] Mm-hmm. Like it's the worst working conditions. So this is why enemies are focused around that time when there wasn't as many responsibilities. There were a lot more, you got thet moments, nostalgia, right? And so how can you create those, not just nostalgic, but relatable, um, meaningful, uh, how can you bring emotion into what you do and, and what you talk about.

[01:01:28] This is how you create more than just subscribers. It's how you create lifelong fans. People who will come to go to at bat for you. Right. People who will go to your event, uh, in Tampa, even though you just found 'em on YouTube. Um, and it's an opportunity we all have. Mm-hmm. And so this is why leaning not away from information, but leaning toward a transformation of how we show up for our people.

[01:01:54] Nathan: Is there anyone that you, you see in the business world, uh, or any of the maybe more traditional education content creators that you see that is doing this really well? Whether it's the story arcs or how, uh, they show up for, for fans or, you know, putting in these recurring characters or any of these principles that, that you've

[01:02:13] Pat: seen from the circles that I have been a part of that many of them overlap with yours?

[01:02:18] Honestly, no. The old school OGs are. Battling this push and pull between like doing what once worked and trying to reposition themselves. And I've been able to do it, but in ano in another space. Yeah. And now I'm learning and I'm trying to bring that back and create more of that in, in the business world.

[01:02:35] What's interesting is what I'm seeing on my YouTube feed, I'm seeing a story about a guy who I've never seen before who is trying to build a soc company on Shopify. And I'm into it, even though I don't know who this person is because of the way that they're telling the story. Mm-hmm. And the ups and downs and these relatable challenges that they're having.

[01:02:55] And that's the cool thing. It's for those of you who might be watching, who might not yet be at a top level or an authority level, it could just take one story, right. To position you in a way that makes you amazing. Um, I mean, this person isn't an educator per se, but the dude from sailing with Phoenix, who quit his job at a tire store cashed out his 401k, bought a sailboat and sailed from Oregon to Hawaii.

[01:03:21] I've seen some of these videos. He captured the attention of the entire world. Right. Not because he was sailing, not because he is teaching anything, but because he represents and did what most people would love to do, but never have the balls to do. Right. Which is quit his job and

[01:03:40] Nathan: sail. Yeah. I'm thinking about the different times I've seen this play out.

[01:03:47] Uh, I think about Alex Lieberman from Gimlet Media when he did the startup podcast years ago. Oh, that was a perfect, that's a perfect example. He did that so well and it resulted in, you know, uh, over a hundred million dollar exit to Yeah. Spotify and, uh, all of this. But we were all hooked on like, what's he gonna name the company?

[01:04:07] What, yeah. Like what, what's going to happen? The whole, we know some people who bought stake in that company. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's wild. I'm trying to find the balance though, between, there's storytelling of your own. Business and journey, which works. And especially if you can, you know, use the modern, you are your own case study Yep.

[01:04:27] And all of that. But then also in the ed, like the education side of it. Like I'm, I'm hung up on how do you do it when you're not the, the case study or you're not telling your own journey. Does anything come to mind there?

[01:04:42] Pat: Yeah. Uh, in a very lean learning way. I'm gonna tell you the one resource you need, and it's a book by Donald Miller called Building a StoryBrand.

[01:04:49] Right. It literally teaches that. Mm-hmm. And it's been a top seller for a very long time because when you, it's, it's even better to tell the stories of others Right. Versus yourself, especially if it's your clients. Mm-hmm. And when you position them as the hero of this story, and you learn the story structure, the story structure mm-hmm.

[01:05:06] Of like the hero's journey, the before, the challenges, the, the, the rebirth and coming out of that mm-hmm. Uh, hardship, um. That story itself sells your thing, right? So if there was one thing to leave your audience with, with like, get better at this, is tell the story, surface the story not of yourself, although that's important, but of your customer mm-hmm.

[01:05:29] Of a subscriber. And that's one thing I love about Kitten, which you've done. You've really focused on that and tried to do that. And I think more can be done to surface those stories, uh, and tell those stories out there in the world.

[01:05:40] Nathan: What I'm thinking about is there's a creator, uh, he, I think he goes by Mr.

[01:05:44] Bain. Uh, he's a, a former Navy Seal and a lot of his content is telling these war stories and all that, but he's branched out and, you know, so he might be telling like how he, uh, went through SEAL training or, you know, uh, being in this battle or, or something else. But now he's just telling all kinds of interesting stories or things that are fascinating and he has such a great style to it.

[01:06:07] Hmm. It's just him talking and there's, you know, B roll or things cut, cut over it. Uh, but I'm realizing that like, that format would work for any niche where you're just like, obviously you have to write an amazing script and deliver it really well and all of that, but you're just like, oh, I just collect and tell really good stories.

[01:06:27] Right.

[01:06:28] Pat: And maybe it's not even about a real person. I mean, don't make up Yeah. Like a fake story about, about a person. But you might even just start a video by saying, if you were a teacher teaching, you know, parents how to manage elementary school periods of life, imagine you started a video like this.

[01:06:47] Imagine you're a parent who gets a call from your teacher saying that your kid just bit somebody else at school. Yep. We're in a story now. Right. And I've put you in that moment of considering what would happen. I've taken you away from is this gonna be useful for me or not? Mm-hmm. To what would I do in that situation?

[01:07:04] It could be as simple as that. Right. But when, you know, and you can pinpoint certain clients of yours and use that as story to sell to others. Mm-hmm. It's so powerful. A, a good friend of mine, I think you know him, Stu McLaren. Yeah, I know Stu. God, I hates Stu, but I love Stu so much, but I hate Stu because he's so masterful.

[01:07:24] Mm-hmm. When I, every time I interview him, I love you, Sue. By the way, every time I've interviewed him, when I ask him a question, he'll answer like this, oh, that's like my student, Amber. Mm-hmm. Because she had this problem and she did this, and she did this. And like he remembers their last name. Right. He remembers the name of their product and.

[01:07:45] Like, it's just so engaging and it proves it, but it also deflects it off of him. Right. And it makes me root for this person. But then I want to go to where this person learned from. Oh yeah. It's from him. Yeah. And I, and he makes

[01:07:58] Nathan: the student the hero of all of it completely. He just, he just helped them unlock this one little thing, and then they, yeah, they achieve what

[01:08:04] Pat: they were meant to be.

[01:08:04] It's, I'm like, how do you do that? I, I brought him to my event once, and I, I selfishly asked him, Stu, how do you re remember all of those stories? What's your secret? And he laughed. And I said, why are you laughing? And he's like, well, pat, I have a spreadsheet printed out behind my computer that is sorted by problem.

[01:08:26] Mm. And I just have under each problem my students who have solved those problems in some way. And I was like, that's cheating, right? I was so mad, but it was so genius. And he was able to just go, oh, we're talking about this common obstacle that I'm coming across every time I talk to somebody. Mm-hmm. So let me write down who in my, uh, you know, who of my clients have already solved that problem and just I can tell that story.

[01:08:52] Nathan: Well, 'cause I'm thinking about this. You know, for Kit, we have 63,000 paying customers, all creators who have amazing stories. And if someone's like, well, how do I do this? I could launch into like, well, so in Kit we have this automation feature and it helps you do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:09:09] Pat: Lame more information.

[01:09:10] Don't eat it.

[01:09:11] Nathan: Nobody, nobody cares. Right. But then, you know, you could say, well, let me tell you about Pat. Let me tell you about, you know, and again, you could have, I, I can visualize that grid, imagine what, what Stu has, and it could be problem, problem in industry. And I could, you know, be like, oh, I could have a story about someone overcoming that growth problem or, um, you know, it's not about automation, it's about freeing up their time.

[01:09:39] Pat: Right. If, if, if it's a mindset thing mm-hmm. This is where this really comes into handy. Yeah. I think there is a, like, if people are like, can you show me how to do this automation? Yeah. If they want a technical answer, we can, you're not gonna be, you know what that reminds me of my friend Jerry, who also once had problems with automation, right?

[01:09:56] Like, yeah, there's a balance, right? But if you are talking to a prospect mm-hmm. Typically it's not a logical reason why they are not. Taking action. There's a psychological reason. Mm-hmm. Uh, and an emotional reason perhaps, when you can pull out these stories of similar people who are experiencing similar problems and show, basically paint a picture of their future through Right.

[01:10:15] A client that you already have. It's magic. I love that. Okay. So where does Deepak Monster go from here? So there are some things that we haven't in, in the works that I cannot yet share. Yep. 'cause I don't wanna reveal them, but we are thinking bigger. Mm-hmm. And we are getting a lot of inspiration from, uh, bigger YouTubers on how to, uh, mobilize this community and do fun things with them.

[01:10:36] That, that, that's very vague. Yeah. Uh, but that's, that's all I can share for now. But this is just the beginning. We are at 1.7 million subscribers on Deep Pocket Monster. Just, just about to cross 1.7 million subscribers in, uh, about four and a half years. And. We see it as, and we treat it as we film, like we are a 10 million subscriber, uh, video channel right now.

[01:11:00] That's how

[01:11:00] Nathan: we

[01:11:01] Pat: got to 1 million.

[01:11:02] Nathan: That's an important phrase. But what does that actually mean? Like, how would you show up if you're like, oh, I'm a YouTuber who's making content about Pokemon or whatever topic versus we are a 10 million subscriber channel and this is how we show up.

[01:11:14] Pat: That means we are learning how those 10 million subscriber channels are creating content and how we can reach more people.

[01:11:23] Because if I stayed completely in the world of Pokemon, for example, there's a lot of Pokemon creators who feel stuck because they're talking about like the investment side of Pokemon. Okay. But there are only so many people who care about the investment side of Pokemon, and it's, it, there's a lot. I mean, first of all, those videos are not evergreen.

[01:11:41] Mm-hmm. And second of all, again, there's a big ceiling there. What I mean by a 10 million subscriber channel is how can we make this Pokemon thing. Reach so far that it would reach a more general slash mass audience. Mm-hmm. Versus just, well this is only for you if you care about Pokemon. No, and we're starting, we like, we've always treated it that way and that's why we're getting comments like, I don't even care about Pokemon, but I can't stop watching these videos.

[01:12:09] So for us more specifically is getting deeper with the storytelling. It's perhaps more collaborations. 'cause we see a lot of bigger creators grow much faster through larger collaborations. And the bigger the channel grows, the more doors open to do those kinds of things. And just instilling the confidence in ourselves as creators.

[01:12:31] And as a team that we are worthy of that 10 million mm-hmm. Subscriber channel. I mean, and even if we don't hit it, at least, if you're, you know, reaching for the stars, you still might land on the moon kind of thing.

[01:12:41] Nathan: Yeah. You know, we'll only hit 5 million. Like, all right. Obviously you're gonna keep pushing.

[01:12:46] Yeah. But yeah, you're gonna hit amazing things.

[01:12:48] Pat: It's, it's, it's so fun though. And, and I think maybe that's another lesson to pass on to a lot of creators. Mm-hmm. Especially ones who've been doing the same thing over and over again. They feel like they're just stuck or, or lost even. Mm-hmm. It's, find the fun, whether it's starting a new thing or going back to the thing that you're already doing, and maybe turning on a lens of fun and trying to find where can you start to enjoy some of this again.

[01:13:09] Yeah.

[01:13:10] Nathan: What would this look like? If it were fun,

[01:13:11] Pat: what would it look like if it were fun?

[01:13:13] Nathan: Yeah. I love that. And I, the other thing that I love is that you're just sharing every aspect of the journey, like you're. You're doing it, you're in it. People can see, you know, everything you're doing along the way, but then you're coming out to the meta layer and saying, oh, but here's the lean learning process I'm going through.

[01:13:30] Here's how I'm applying it. And letting people, I guess, follow on, on a few different levels, which is really fun.

[01:13:35] Pat: That's been the cool thing about this book. The last chapter in the book is about the power of, of teaching. Mm-hmm. As a form of learning. For example, I, I have a friend of mine who is learning how to play the ukulele, and he lives in Hawaii and they have access to like the best ukulele players, right?

[01:13:49] Yeah. So he is got this master teacher who's teaching him, and he's like a few months into it, and the teacher said, Hey, now that you know these chords, I want you to teach your son how to play the ukulele. And the dude's like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm learning from you. How can I go teach somebody else? And he, the master knew that by teaching the kid, he would simplify it so much that he would then understand it even further himself.

[01:14:15] So then the master listened to the sun play those chords, and then now this guy has got that ingrained. Mm-hmm. And it's like that much further ahead, right? There's power in teaching and by writing this book, I was forced, yeah. To learn how to create the frameworks around what I've always been doing, how I've created multiple successful businesses and always seem to, as other people say, knock it outta the park every time.

[01:14:35] I mean, I don't, but I do a lot of very successful things, and it's not because I'm a genius or anything like that, it's because I have a specific way to approach things so that I don't overlearn. I learned by doing. Yeah. And getting results. So that has forced me to put this into this book. And thankfully the book is doing very well.

[01:14:52] New York Times. Oh, yeah. And, and, and again, to have that happen here is, is just such a blessing. And I'm hoping it can take, you know, the level of Atomic Habits or Mel Robbins or whatever. I'm gonna do my best to get it to that point where it hits the world because it's an important message that needs to be heard.

[01:15:07] Yeah.

[01:15:07] Nathan: It really is. Well, uh, first thank you for being an amazing advisor to Kit over the last 10 years. Uh, we've, we've been working together for a long time.

[01:15:16] Pat: You always give me a lot of credit for, for helping Kit get it started in the early days. And, and, and I know that the, the audience I had was a big part of that, but I mean, thank you.

[01:15:24] You reached out to me and took me out to coffee in San Diego. San Diego. Went back in the day San Yeah. And, um, you showed me some stuff that was really cool and exciting and it hadn't yet been built, but you were building it and Yeah. Um, yeah. I'm very grateful for the journey that we've been on and you know, we're still

[01:15:39] Nathan: together.

[01:15:39] Pat: Yep.

[01:15:40] Nathan: It's amazing. Alright, where should people go to check out the book and then also to follow all the things that you're up to?

[01:15:45] Pat: Yeah, the book, wherever books are sold and, and you know, it's at Barnes, it's at Amazon, target, and, uh, you know, maybe Amazon would be best, uh, but Pat Flynn on social, like, hit me up, let me know you watched this and, and hopefully you enjoyed it.

[01:15:58] And if you have questions about the YouTube channel especially like I, I'm just nerding out about that right now more than anything. So happy to help.

[01:16:03] Nathan: Sounds good. Thanks so much for coming on.

[01:16:04] Pat: Thanks, man.

[01:16:05] Nathan: If you enjoyed this episode, go to YouTube and search the Nathan Berry Show. Then hit subscribe and make sure to like the video and drop a comment.

[01:16:13] I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were and also just who else do you think we should have on the show. Thank you so much for listening.