The Nathan Barry Show

[00:00:00] Nathan: Today's guest is Rose Griffin. She's built a $210,000 a year business with 500 members and a powerful online presence, but now she's ready to scale.

[00:00:09] Rose: I've created my whole business on leveraging social media and getting those people into kit, so that's more the B2C I think I really like and I've already tried to do it, is putting way more energy in that B2B and making those connections.

[00:00:23] Nathan: Let's say you wanted to get to a million in revenue as fast as possible,

[00:00:26] Rose: right?

[00:00:26] Nathan: What would have to be true? Yes. To get 20 groups, uhhuh pay you $25,000 a,

[00:00:32] Rose: I think

[00:00:35] Nathan: whenever we're selling education, one of my favorite things is to teach a skill that makes money for people who have money. How do we identify the people mm-hmm.

[00:00:44] That make these buying decisions? Right. The question that I would want to ask these 61,000 people on your email list,

[00:00:50] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:00:50] Nathan: Is.

[00:00:51] Rose: I've never asked that. That's why I came here,

[00:01:00] Nathan: rose. I feel like as entrepreneurs we often have a moment or a story that drives us to start the business or to create, I'm really curious, what was something for you that made you say, all right, I'm gonna do my own thing.

[00:01:13] Rose: Yeah. I, about eight or nine years ago, my oldest daughter was having a Halloween parade, and it was a day that I had to be at work and I couldn't go, and I was devastated by that.

[00:01:26] But my husband, who's in medical device sales and was making probably six times what I was making, was able to attend. And I have that picture and I said, someday I'm gonna be on a business podcast and say, this is the day that I realized I really wanted to start something. On my own. And around that time I had an idea for a therapy product.

[00:01:44] Mm-hmm. And so I just, I just started by finding a designer and distributors and, and created my product. And now it's a full fledged business. So that was really what started it.

[00:01:56] Nathan: Yeah. There, there's a quote that I heard once of entrepreneurship is a trauma response. And I first heard that and I was like, what?

[00:02:03] No, it's not. I create from a place of like, you know, abundance and everything else. And then as the speaker kept talking, I was realizing, wait a second. I remember working at Wendy's when I was in high school. And, uh, the, I was really sick and I like came, like came, I thought it was fine. I came into work and then like 10 minutes later I was like, oh, I feel awful.

[00:02:26] And so I went and told my manager like, I feel so sick, I have to go home. And she was like, you can go home. Like, she passed the employee directory over to me and said, you can go home when you find your replacement. Okay. And I was like, I just like threw up in the back. Like so I'm like going here, making, making fries.

[00:02:43] Yeah. Yeah. And I like ended up calling like three people and someone was like, yeah, yeah, I can come and come cover you. So it was fine. But I realized like, oh, that was the moment where I was like, oh, I want to be able to set my own schedule, do my own thing. Like that was, I thought, unacceptable for my manager.

[00:02:58] I was like, this is your job. Yes. But then you have that moment where you say, okay, I want complete freedom. Yes. And it sounds like for you that was when you realize like, oh wait, I need to be, uh, to be doing something with my time and my business and all of this where I have the freedom to show up to a Halloween parade or any number of other things.

[00:03:17] Rose: Yes. I just wanted to be really present for my kids. Mm-hmm. And this business has allowed me to, to be there for all those moments.

[00:03:24] Nathan: Was there a time, maybe fast forward some number of years where. You realize like, oh wait, I've achieved that goal where you're sitting at something and you realize like, I can be here because of what I've made.

[00:03:35] Rose: Oh yeah. I remember being a, a story reader in my son's second grade class for Halloween and just thinking I'm so lucky to do work that I love where I'm helping others and I can be really present for my kids. Yeah. I just love, I love that feeling.

[00:03:53] Nathan: Yep. Yeah. That's so good. Okay, so you and I actually have something in common.

[00:03:57] Um, you've dedicated a career to it. I have dedicated, you know, a couple of years, but the very first iPhone app or iPad app that I ever made was in the world of, uh, speech language, I can't even talk speech language pathology. And uh, that was back in 2010 when the iPad had first came, come out and my sister-in-law.

[00:04:19] Was uh, working with kids with autism and she was telling me like, Hey, they're all using this big like ruggedized pc that costs like $8,000 and it has a 30 minute battery life and a big bulky cord and all of this. And like, I think you can make something better for the iPad. Wow. And so that was the first app that I ever made back in 2010, but it was distributed through speech language pathologists.

[00:04:43] Rose: Wow. Yeah, I read that in the newsletter and I was like, that is fascinating. And that really changed augmentative communication. We call that a a C for the field because you're right, some kids still have those dedicated devices, which are nice, but the iPad and all those applications has just given a voice to so many kids who didn't have it before.

[00:05:01] It's made it so much more accessible. So when I read that in the newsletter, I was like, oh wow, that's so cool that you had, you know, a pizza in that. And you kind of know what I do a little bit.

[00:05:09] Nathan: Yeah, exactly. But for everyone else who's following along and. To admit, I only know a little bit of that world.

[00:05:15] Um, what is speech language pathology and, and like really what's your background in this space?

[00:05:21] Rose: Yeah, so I've been a speech therapist for over 20 years and I became a speech therapist because my mom gave me a career test when I was a senior in high school and it said you should be a speech therapist. I didn't know what that was, so I shadowed a family friend and I just never look back.

[00:05:35] I love it. You can help people. It's a science-based field and speech therapists do so much. We help people who have had strokes, dementia, traumatic brain injury, um, and autism is really what I specialize in. Ever since my second year, um, I was working in a school, then I started working at the Cleveland Clinic and I started working in a very specialized program for autistic learners who didn't have a way to communicate, who engaged in very unsafe problem behavior.

[00:05:58] That was really a barrier to them being a part of the community. And so when I started that job I was like, wow, this is. Amazing. Like, I wanna help somebody who is 18 and has never talked before, you know, use an iPad to communicate mm-hmm. Or an a, a c device. And so that just let a fire in me to, to wanna go, you know, to places and to talk about what I do because I really feel like every autistic person deserves a way to communicate with the world.

[00:06:22] Mm-hmm. And so I love just being able to support professionals in, in their daily work.

[00:06:28] Nathan: Okay. And so you've been running the business for eight years now? Mm-hmm. What does that look like? As you've ramped all the way up, we have written up on the board Yes. You know, scaling, uh, from 210,000 to a million. Yes.

[00:06:37] Uh, but what does that path to 210,000 look like, look like?

[00:06:41] Rose: Yeah. I mean, I just, just like any solopreneur, I was doing everything, the marketing department, writing, you know, uh, my email newsletters and doing reels on Instagram to try to build my list and community. And so I started my business with an idea for a therapy product called the Action Builder Cards.

[00:06:57] And I sold those, we sold 2000 sets of those, and then it just morphed into doing courses. Um, and now for the past few years, I've had the a BA speech connection where speech therapists and BCBAs can get their continuing education credits that they really, on a logistical level have to have to maintain their licensure.

[00:07:15] And so I love presenting, I love presenting virtually in person, um, and just really helping to support professionals who are doing such important work.

[00:07:24] Nathan: Can you talk about the continuing education credits? 'cause that's gonna be really important for how your business scales and it's something that every SLP needs to have.

[00:07:32] Rose: Yes.

[00:07:33] Nathan: How does that work?

[00:07:34] Rose: Actually, it's really, really hard to become, it's called an ASHA approved provider. Okay. That's our, our national organization. And so there are not a lot of people. I remember when we turned that application and it was over 200 pages to become an ASHA approved provider. So that was really, really special.

[00:07:48] So we offer CEUs for speech therapists and also BCBA. Mm-hmm. So those are two different boards that we're kind of reporting data to. And so that has been really nice too, to be able to offer that because not a lot of people offer, um, ASHA CEUs.

[00:08:02] Nathan: So in that. In order to, to maintain, uh, a license or mm-hmm.

[00:08:08] To be actively practicing. How many use do you, does someone need in a year? Like, what does that whole world look like? Sure. Where they might be coming to you for mm-hmm. More training.

[00:08:17] Rose: So usually about 30 every two years. Okay. 30 every two years. Yep. In a, in a, in a general sense. And so it's something you kind of always, now, not everybody, some people wait till the last second and take a lot of s all at once, but most people are trying to just do them throughout the year.

[00:08:32] So that's what's nice about our membership is we do live courses every month, but if you can't attend live, then they go into a CEU library that you can watch on your, your own time.

[00:08:41] Nathan: Yeah. And so, you know, every, most people that I have on the show are making money a bunch of different ways, but if it's courses, then it's usually entirely based on the value delivered.

[00:08:51] You know, someone say, Hey, do I buy this because I'm trying to get a specific outcome. I'm trying to learn a new skill, you know, LinkedIn growth through that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. Obviously, in this case, you're in this hybrid world where you're. You're selling to professionals who are using this, not just that they want it, but they're actually required to mm-hmm.

[00:09:09] Uh, you know, continue to, to learn and grow in those ways. And so I'm curious, you know, as you listen to all the podcasts in the entrepreneurship space, and you know, everyone that, like, I feel like you and I both came up in this industry following, whether it be Pat Flynn or Amy Porterfield or whoever, um, what are the things that maybe are a unique advantage that you have versus maybe some of the other challenges that you have of like, as you're trying to translate a more traditional creative world into

[00:09:36] Rose: Yeah.

[00:09:36] Nathan: You know, your industry.

[00:09:38] Rose: It has been fun to try to learn a business background and try to put that into the space that I'm in. Mm-hmm. Because nobody really does the things that I'm doing. I feel like there's not a lot of people out there that are offering courses in this specific way mm-hmm. Or leveraging social media.

[00:09:55] Um, and I think I get a lot of those ideas from, from the, the creator space. Yeah.

[00:10:01] Nathan: So is there anything with the, the eus in particular that you've learned to really be able to, uh, drive more revenue there or mm-hmm. Um, you know, meet this need that the professionals have?

[00:10:13] Rose: Yeah, I mean, something that's been really popular is just I try to keep a pulse on what is, what people are talking about mm-hmm.

[00:10:19] In the industry and trying to make topics that are really relevant and timely. And so I think by offering things like that, because I am a treating therapist still two days a week, so I think that I understand the pain points of people that are in the trenches. And so I think what I do with the a BA speech connection is like this curated professional development experience.

[00:10:38] Um, you know, it's not a marketplace where just anybody can do a course and be a speaker. It's really me reaching out to people that I know that my audience would learn and enjoy learning from.

[00:10:48] Nathan: Yeah. That makes sense. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so I wanna get up on the board in a moment, and we're gonna spend some time mapping out what it looks like to, to basically four to five x revenue.

[00:10:57] Over the next couple of years and get to that seven figure mark. But as we do it, I wanted just to know like, why is seven figures important to you? Like what, when you think about okay, a million dollars a year, what does that mean? What would that achieve for you?

[00:11:13] Rose: Yeah. I mean, I think it would just make me feel really proud of my business.

[00:11:17] Mm-hmm. Although I am proud of my business now, but I think it would be just another level. And I also think it would just give me revenue to allow my kids to go to college where they wanna go. Mm-hmm. Not just where I can afford to send them. Yes. Or, you know, um, take them to Europe a couple times before they graduate from high school.

[00:11:32] Mm-hmm. So, so things like that.

[00:11:34] Nathan: How do your kids now

[00:11:35] Rose: they are 15, 12, and 10.

[00:11:37] Nathan: Okay.

[00:11:38] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:38] Nathan: Yep. Those are fun ages. Mm-hmm. I'm in the earlier half of that.

[00:11:42] Rose: Yes, yes. Busy, busy.

[00:11:44] Nathan: Yeah. And then, is there a reason in particular that. Seven figures. You know, like if we said, okay, how about like, we're trying to get to $500,000 a year.

[00:11:54] Right. Something like that. Like what's the difference there?

[00:11:57] Rose: Yeah. I guess to me when you say you have a seven figure business, it feels like you're, you have a legitimate business. Mm-hmm. Like, oh wow. You know? 'cause I come from a speech therapy background. I don't come from a business background. So to me, I'm in a lot of circles of people who are running seven figure businesses and it just, I feel like I have all the bones and the framework to have that.

[00:12:17] And it would mean that I'm reaching so many more people with that message and that is really what lights me up.

[00:12:23] Nathan: Yeah. I think the impact is a really big thing. And then also for me, I love playing the game of business. And so like that, and it is really fun. And knowing that the more, you know, the more these numbers go up, the more we reach more people, the more people we're impacting.

[00:12:38] Mm-hmm. Like those are really fun things. And then also, it's not just a meaningless score. It's like, oh no, this actually means something for, you know, uh. Taking over family financial security. Yeah. College funds. Mm-hmm. All of those things. Yes. Well, let's, uh, let's get up on the board. Okay. And map out your business right now, and then, uh, take a look at what we think it would take to go to a million.

[00:13:00] Rose: Okay. Let's do it.

[00:13:01] Nathan: Let's start by mapping out your business today. Okay. So, 2024 was 210,000 in revenue. Yes. Uh, let's break it down of roughly where that came from.

[00:13:10] Rose: Okay. So about 35% is coming in from the a BA speech connection, my CEU membership. And then about another 25% is coming in from just course sales because people can purchase just the CEOs alone.

[00:13:22] They don't have to join the membership. And then another 25% is coming in from therapy 'cause we offer teletherapy in Washington state. And then the rest is coming in from. Speaking, speaking engagements that I do.

[00:13:37] Nathan: Uh, and then I was gonna draw a circle. It's gonna be a little bit small. I'm gonna borrow your blue for a second to make it look interesting.

[00:13:43] Okay. That sounds good. So in 2024, we said that was 210,000. So I think as you look at this, what were the areas that you had the most fun?

[00:13:54] Rose: Oh, that I had the most fun. I actually love, I love speaking. Okay. Really? Okay. Yeah, it's fun for me. I, I love it. Ever since I worked with Mike Paccione as a speech coach, oh, Mike the best.

[00:14:04] He's the best. But after I did his speech group mastermind, I, I love to present always, but I just felt like I can infuse stories, right. And humor. And he just says people set the bar so low, so low on speaking that I just feel really comfortable doing that. And I think it just allows me to connect with people.

[00:14:25] They feel like they get to know me, which I love. Right. I love that.

[00:14:27] Nathan: Yeah, that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Okay, so now I wanna map out what the platforms that you have mm-hmm. And the audiences that you have. Sure. Um, let's, let's just do that. Let's go platforms. What are the platforms that matter to you?

[00:14:39] Rose: Okay. Um, okay.

[00:14:42] Nathan: Okay.

[00:14:42] Rose: I had 61,000 followers. Okay. Instagram, I have a hundred thousand followers. YouTube is about 40 and LinkedIn is about 21, and Facebook is 19. I'm also on Facebook.

[00:14:56] Nathan: Okay. I love that you also, that, you know, all these numbers, so, so specifically could

[00:15:00] Rose: be a fan Metrics. Did a little homework before I came here.

[00:15:03] No,

[00:15:04] Nathan: it's good. So seeing the breakdown there. All right. So Kit and Instagram are really the bulk of it. Yes. Um, okay. I think that's really interesting. And then you were telling me something about, before we started recording, about where the revenue comes from in the membership and courses business.

[00:15:20] Rose: Yes. So.

[00:15:22] Nathan: A lot of your customers are individual, ex individual therapists, right? All of that. But then you've also had some, some group sales.

[00:15:29] Rose: Yes, yes. So in the past year we had a group of 200 join. Okay. And then we had a group of 20 join. And that has been really great. To have those, those bigger groups join us has been really

[00:15:39] impactful

[00:15:40] for my business.

[00:15:41] Nathan: So when you look at those numbers, is that something that seems pretty repeatable to do with those big group sales?

[00:15:48] Rose: I mean, I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think I need a better system on how to make that happen. Right. Okay. But absolutely.

[00:15:54] Nathan: So that, that's something that we could map out is a system on how to do group sales.

[00:15:57] What's the price point on, um, on these different offerings?

[00:16:02] Rose: So monthly you can join Monthly. Okay. That's $25 a month.

[00:16:05] Nathan: Yep.

[00:16:05] Rose: And you can join annual annually. And that's 2 47.

[00:16:09] Nathan: And then the group sales, how did you end up pressing those?

[00:16:13] Rose: I mean, just kind of based on the group. Okay. I, you know, with my coach, we kind of just looked at, well if it's zero to 20, it's this much, if it's 20 to 50, you know, just so I have that set pricing.

[00:16:23] Um, and so, you know, obviously it's less than 2 47 a year, you know, for the larger group, the larger amount would, you know, it cost them less. So Yeah.

[00:16:32] Nathan: But are we in the 200 people? Are we 10,000 a year? 20,000 a year? Like what's that?

[00:16:36] Rose: Yeah, closer to like 25.

[00:16:38] Nathan: Okay.

[00:16:38] Rose: Yeah.

[00:16:39] Nathan: So one of the reasons that I like to map out where the revenue comes from and the different buckets is 'cause then you can see what feels most scalable.

[00:16:47] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:48] Nathan: And so if we were to look at these buckets, 15% speaking, 25% therapy, 25% courses, 35% membership. And we say, all right, those numbers are at 210,000.

[00:16:59] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:59] Nathan: What do they look at look like at 1 million? Right. If you had to guess right now, I'll give you back the marker. Alright. And let's you draw on this side.

[00:17:08] Oh,

[00:17:08] Rose: dear.

[00:17:09] Nathan: What, uh, if we were to go down the list, what would you guess? Um, the percentages would be at one.

[00:17:16] Rose: Okay. Oh, at 1 million. Oh dear. I mean, I feel like membership would probably be 50%.

[00:17:22] Nathan: Okay.

[00:17:23] Rose: Um, and I mean courses, you know, I guess should I still be offering those as standalone courses? I wonder, you know, people don't have to join the membership, they can just take a course.

[00:17:36] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:17:36] Rose: You know, I don't know what your thought is on that. Um, yeah, and probably, I mean, maybe speaking I do like speaking, but maybe the courses would be a little bit less.

[00:17:46] Nathan: Okay.

[00:17:46] Rose: Math isn't my strong suit here, David. Well,

[00:17:48] Nathan: that's fine. We're we're just growing something out there as a strong man. Yeah.

[00:17:51] Rose: And then speaking, I do enjoy speaking.

[00:17:52] Yeah. So I'd still like to do it. I, I like to connect with people too, because then sometimes when they hear me speak live and they'll join the membership mm-hmm. Or there's some type of. Good, better, best pricing where Right. I do a speaking engagement or I do a speaking engagement and you join the membership and get some type of deal, you know?

[00:18:08] Yeah. Things like that. Um, but I know some memberships, you, you have to be in the membership to get the, the courses, but sometimes I just offer them a standalone courses because people are not ready to like, join the membership. Yeah. They're getting a taste of what could be, you know, which I think is nice to do.

[00:18:24] I don't know.

[00:18:25] Nathan: Yeah. Okay. So then, um, so in our, we might be 10% speaking Yeah. At this point. Right. So that would be a hundred thousand dollars a year from speaking engagements. Yeah. Okay. I love just throwing these numbers out there. 'cause sometimes you, you do something and you're like, Ooh, actually no, not that.

[00:18:39] Or you're like, no, that sounds, that sounds right on. Right. And so that's what it could look like at 1 million.

[00:18:45] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:46] Nathan: Let's look at the 50% membership.

[00:18:47] Rose: Yeah.

[00:18:48] Nathan: So we're now 60. Actually your ratio hasn't changed that much. You're, you were 65%, or here you're 65% courses in membership. Uhhuh. Over here, you're 60%.

[00:19:00] Okay. Um, do, does that sound right? Or like, if we're trying to scale one thing, is it really gonna be, I

[00:19:06] Rose: think it would be the membership just because if I could get their group sales, I guess that's what I'm thinking. Yeah.

[00:19:12] Nathan: So really scaling that.

[00:19:13] Rose: Right.

[00:19:13] Nathan: Um, I wanna ask about 25% therapy. Right. So here we're growing, that'd be growing from 50,000 a year, right?

[00:19:20] In therapy revenue to 250,000 a year in therapy revenue.

[00:19:25] Rose: Oh no, it probably pretty, pretty stagnant.

[00:19:28] Nathan: Okay.

[00:19:28] Rose: Just because it's not something that I even have on my website. It's just word of mouth, like it's not a big Yeah. You know, it's just all been word of mouth, very organic. Like these companies know that we do it in Washington State.

[00:19:39] I live in Ohio, so it's just

[00:19:41] Nathan: Why do you do it in Washington state?

[00:19:42] Rose: Well, what's funny is somebody had reached out to me on Instagram five years ago, like not even my main business, a smaller business I used to co-own. And they said, are you licensed in Washington State? And they said, no, not yet. Um, and I got licensed there and now we support seven clinics and we have five D independent contractors.

[00:19:59] I have a clinical director now. Um, but it's just kind of word of mouth. I'm not like going out there and telling everybody like, we do therapy.

[00:20:07] Nathan: So I guess what I'm wondering is. I've talked to this on the podcast some before. Mm-hmm. But there's this idea of strip malls versus skyscrapers. Right? And so what we have right now Yes.

[00:20:18] Is we have a strip mall of different businesses, right? And then the nice thing is they all serve the same clientele, right? Like a lot of people will do this and they'll be, oh yeah, I've got this. Like, yes. Instead of boutique little businesses and all of that. And you look and you are like, they have nothing to do with each other.

[00:20:33] What are you doing? Right. In your case, they, they all have a lot to do with each other. Right. Uh, so that's helpful. But what I'm wondering is which ones could actually scale and be that status paper? Right. And so the sounds like the memberships you believe in. Yes. But I wanna ask about the therapy. What's the reason that you wouldn't say, Hey, we're doing, we wanna get to 250,000 or 500,000 a year?

[00:20:55] Right. Therapy rep?

[00:20:57] Rose: Yeah. Because I think right now everybody that helps with this is an independent contractor. So there's no employees. And I feel like if we were really gonna scale this part of the business, we would really have to change the business model, which are things that I just am not comfortable with right now.

[00:21:12] Yeah. 'cause I don't have any employees.

[00:21:14] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:21:14] Rose: Yeah.

[00:21:15] Nathan: So one thing that I like to map out is constraints.

[00:21:18] Rose: Okay.

[00:21:19] Nathan: Right. Because if you want, let's say you wanted to get to a million in revenue.

[00:21:23] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:23] Nathan: Um, as fast as possible.

[00:21:25] Rose: Right.

[00:21:26] Nathan: Well let's find a Facebook ad funnel.

[00:21:28] Rose: Mm-hmm. That

[00:21:29] Nathan: is break even,

[00:21:30] Rose: right.

[00:21:30] Nathan: Or loses money.

[00:21:31] Yeah. And then we can scale that, you know, run off a bunch of credit card points, low credit card debt on there, and we can at a million in note time. Yeah, there you go. Right. But the constraint is, well this business has to be profitable.

[00:21:42] Rose: Right,

[00:21:43] Nathan: right. It's kind of an important Yes. That's key. Um, so I guess if we write down, uh, a couple of these, I'll put it right here of constraints.

[00:21:51] You said one, which is no employees, right? Yeah. Why is that important?

[00:21:56] Rose: I guess it's not, I mean, it's not that I would, I'm saying no, I never wanna have an employee. It's just not something Right. That I'm comfortable with. So I would just have to, to learn about it. Um, but it's not just not something I do right now.

[00:22:11] So that would be something new for me.

[00:22:13] Nathan: Yep. Mm-hmm. No employees or a small team say.

[00:22:15] Rose: Yeah.

[00:22:16] Nathan: Okay. Um, and then there's also the, the aspect of profits

[00:22:21] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:22:22] Nathan: Profits. Do you have a profit margin in mind that, that you'd want to have?

[00:22:27] Rose: Well, I mean, we, it's about 38% right now. Okay. Yeah.

[00:22:30] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:22:31] Rose: So,

[00:22:31] Nathan: I mean, 38, 30 8% is solid.

[00:22:33] Rose: That's healthy.

[00:22:34] Nathan: I do think if we, if we take the 38% number to a million Yeah. Then, uh, then we're at thir, uh, 380,000. Right. In profit. Right. Does that get you to where you're trying to go or add a million? Are you imagining that. We'd be a higher profit.

[00:22:51] Rose: No, I mean, to me that would be great. Okay. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:54] Nathan: Um, what are you spending the most money on right now?

[00:22:57] Rose: Um, I run Facebook ads

[00:22:59] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:22:59] Rose: Every day, which I love. Um, so that, yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:04] Nathan: Why, why do you love the Facebook ads?

[00:23:06] Rose: Um, I just feel like Facebook ads make my business feel alive.

[00:23:09] Nathan: Because you're getting that this constant leads constant engagement. Oh, constant sales.

[00:23:13] Rose: Every day there's sales. Yeah. And every day people. I could help that have no clue who I am because maybe they're not on Instagram and they're not watching me do all my funny reels. I think they're funny. Um, I get into their, you know, I'm on the phone. Yeah. They see me. And I always, I always use a survey for my, um, kit subscribers.

[00:23:33] Probably every October we do it at least. And it's like, how did you find out about me and do you know, I have a podcast and all those things. And so I think, um, just that awareness is really exciting for my brand.

[00:23:45] Nathan: Okay. So spending most money on Facebook ads, uh, some on contractors and team,

[00:23:50] Rose: yes. I have an assistant, I have a project manager, have a designer.

[00:23:55] I have, um, one coach I call my business bestie. That helps me with all the tactical stuff every week. And then I have, you know, somebody else that helps me with more mindset and things like that.

[00:24:04] Nathan: Yeah. So, yeah, from everything you're describing. The Facebook ads scales. Mm-hmm. Pretty linearly with the rest of the business.

[00:24:11] Right. But I think the other things are all you're, you're gonna get economies of scale. Mm-hmm. Right? Where the, the cost for the coaching isn't going to increase. Mm-hmm. You could find other things that you wanna buy.

[00:24:23] Rose: Right. Right.

[00:24:24] Nathan: Um, so if I were to write down a goal, I would have growing that profit from 38% to 50% on that, that journey to, um, to a million.

[00:24:35] Now in this, we're looking at the breakdown, I think of courses in membership is pretty similar.

[00:24:41] Rose: Okay.

[00:24:42] Nathan: Um, now and speaking kind of tangential to that

[00:24:48] Rose: Yeah.

[00:24:48] Nathan: Doesn't feel like a main focus. I'm curious about the therapy. Why, why keep doing therapy?

[00:24:54] Rose: Oh, like me personally or you Personally

[00:24:56] Nathan: or also running the therapy practice?

[00:24:59] Yeah. In the state of Washington.

[00:25:00] Rose: I guess for right now, it's. I have a clinical director. Mm-hmm. So last year we created that role. It was somebody that was on my email list, took my courses, did the therapy, and now she's in that role. I don't really have to do a lot of work per se. I'm not doing that therapy, so I feel like why not?

[00:25:18] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:20] Nathan: All right. So I think what we've established is that the bulk of this mm-hmm. All of this growth that's gonna come from scaling the membership, right. You touch on this as the group sales being mm-hmm. Um, the way that you're gonna fail it. And the nice thing is that this isn't a random theory.

[00:25:35] Rose: Right. You

[00:25:36] Nathan: have it in practice,

[00:25:37] Rose: right? Yes. Of like, okay,

[00:25:38] Nathan: people will buy this, uh, in group

[00:25:40] Rose: Yes. Uh,

[00:25:41] Nathan: in groups. And so what would it look like to go out and to scale the group sales? Right. If we were gonna do 25,000 a year mm-hmm. In, you know, of a bunch of these Right. Then what do you think, 500,000, $400,000 a year of?

[00:25:59] Rose: Yeah, that would be amazing. Of

[00:26:00] Nathan: group sales.

[00:26:01] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:02] Nathan: So if you were to get, I guess, 20 at this size mm-hmm. Would get us to $500,000 a year.

[00:26:07] Rose: Yeah.

[00:26:08] Nathan: Um, what one of my favorite questions is what would have to be true?

[00:26:12] Rose: What would have to be true for me to get that?

[00:26:14] Nathan: What would have to be true to get 20 groups, uh, to pay you $25,000 a year?

[00:26:20] Rose: I think I have been, I've create my, created my whole business on leveraging social media and getting those people into kit. Yeah. And nurturing them and building a relationship. So that's more the B2C I think I really like, and I've already tried to do it time-wise, is putting way more energy in that B B2B and making those connections, which I have been doing this past year.

[00:26:42] But I think I'm really kind of honing in on who would that be. Right. For, right. What school districts would that be? Right. For what organizations? Um. But yeah, I'd love to leverage kind of like some of the things you've done at Kit where it's like, if somebody else is already, if the CEU provider, but they don't like it that much.

[00:27:00] Like what are the trouble that they're having with their CEU provider now? Like the courses aren't great, they're not autism specific. It's like we can help with that, but how do we leverage some type of marketing to get those people to make that switch because people wanna hit the easy button and just keep doing what they've always done using the bigger memberships.

[00:27:19] Nathan: Right.

[00:27:20] Rose: You know,

[00:27:21] Nathan: whenever we're selling education, one of my favorite things is to teach a skill that makes money to people who have money. Right. And in this case, it's not just, Hey, let me teach you this skill and it will help you make money in the future. It's if you want to keep, continue to be in your profession mm-hmm.

[00:27:36] You must buy this product from someone. Right. Right. And so here's why I'm the best.

[00:27:40] Rose: Mm-hmm. You

[00:27:41] Nathan: don't have to create demand.

[00:27:42] Rose: Mm-hmm. You have

[00:27:43] Nathan: to capture the demand already. Is that right? Right.

[00:27:45] Rose: Correct. Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

[00:27:47] Nathan: Okay. So if we were to, to look at that, what would have to be true?

[00:27:51] Rose: We're capturing that attention.

[00:27:52] Nathan: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:53] Rose: I feel like there's some people that have just been using the same CEU provider for years and years. Yep. So how do I, I mean, one of the things on the KIT website that I, one of my coaches showed me was like Kit versus another email provider. Right. And then I popped that into chat GPT and I was like, Ooh.

[00:28:10] Um, because I'm a speech therapist and BCBA. So if you have an organization where you have speech therapists, you have BCBAs, they don't always get along. I can be that kinda go-between.

[00:28:21] Nathan: And I think

[00:28:22] Rose: when, 'cause you understand both sides, because I understand both sides. So when I understand both sides that people wanna feel heard at work, right.

[00:28:29] Each person wants to help. Right. They think all autistic students should have a voice, but they have a different way of going about it. But when you feel that conflict at work, you may leave, right? Mm-hmm. And for an organization to lose somebody and not to have that retention of staff, that costs an organization money.

[00:28:46] Right? Right. And it just affects the overall company culture. So that's where I come in.

[00:28:52] Nathan: So you need, you could identify not just all the organizations that have SLPs on staff,

[00:28:58] Rose: right.

[00:28:59] Nathan: But you're saying you can identify the ones that have both?

[00:29:02] Rose: Correct.

[00:29:03] Nathan: Okay.

[00:29:03] Rose: Yes.

[00:29:04] Nathan: And how many organizations is that?

[00:29:06] Rose: I mean, it's a lot

[00:29:07] Nathan: or hundreds, thousands, tens, thousands.

[00:29:09] Rose: Probably. Probably hundreds. Okay. I would say hundreds. Like what types

[00:29:13] Nathan: of organizations?

[00:29:14] Rose: Well, maybe clinics. So there might be like a b, a clinics across the United States. Mm-hmm. Maybe like mom and pop ones and you know, the state we're in now where like, you know, bigger, larger organizations and sometimes they have their own in-house CEUs too.

[00:29:29] So I'm combating with that.

[00:29:30] Nathan: So that'd be with, uh, let me get my acronyms right. Yes. S with SLPs. Yes. And BBAs and

[00:29:37] Rose: Yes.

[00:29:38] Nathan: Um, I'm learning some work. I'm learning the industry. Yes. And there's

[00:29:41] Rose: another one, RBT as they work under the direction of A, B, C, B, A. And there's actually. 200,000 of those people and that certification just started within the last 10 years.

[00:29:49] Oh wow. And actually in 2026, RB ts are going to have to get cece's, but that kind of opens up my market a bit as well.

[00:29:58] Nathan: So one, one thing that's always interesting is, is like, okay, you want a five extra business. Is there enough market? Right. Is the total addressable market

[00:30:06] Rose: the tam, right? The tam, yes. Is that

[00:30:07] Nathan: big enough?

[00:30:07] Yes. And you're like, uh, yes.

[00:30:09] Rose: Yes.

[00:30:10] Nathan: You just said that one of the subgroups Yes. Is 200,000 people.

[00:30:13] Rose: Right.

[00:30:14] Nathan: Okay. So

[00:30:15] Rose: that's why like if my goal would be like, maybe to have, I don't know, 4,000 members, right. And the connection, um, some days I wake up and I think like, yeah, I've got this. And other days I'm like, I don't feel that way.

[00:30:28] Nathan: So that's one you write down?

[00:30:30] Rose: Yes.

[00:30:31] Nathan: Large tam. And then we come over here with our other marker and go, yep.

[00:30:36] Rose: Yes. Check.

[00:30:37] Nathan: We've got that.

[00:30:38] Rose: Yes.

[00:30:38] Nathan: Okay. So then it's really. And you know, you have a product that people want to buy.

[00:30:42] Rose: Yes, yes. Absolutely. People enjoy the product. I get a lot of, what's nice about our courses too is that people, when they take a course, especially a live course, they, they do a feedback form.

[00:30:51] And so I go through those, it's in my Basecamp, my project management tool to go through that because that helps me get copy for all my marketing, right? I am the marketing department currently, so I love to go through and just see like, wow, that was really helpful for that person, for this specific reason.

[00:31:06] Mm-hmm. And that is really inspiring to me.

[00:31:08] Nathan: It really feels like a sales problem, right? Yes. Of how do we identify. The people

[00:31:14] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:31:14] Nathan: That make these buying decisions.

[00:31:16] Rose: Right. Exactly.

[00:31:18] Nathan: So tell me about these two group sales you had so far. Where did those come from?

[00:31:22] Rose: Yeah, so the 200 was somebody that was just organically in my membership.

[00:31:25] Okay. And has a very large role in a, a healthcare system, and so they wanted their team members to join, which was great.

[00:31:32] Nathan: How many people are in your membership right now?

[00:31:34] Rose: About 500.

[00:31:35] Nathan: Okay. Are any more of these kind of people in that? Well,

[00:31:38] Rose: I go through and I comb and I look and I, you know, set up calls to talk to people about their, not to do a sales call, but to ask about their onboarding and what their CEEs currently are.

[00:31:47] Because the thing is with my kit right here, okay. Because I've had a business coach say, well, you have a conversion problem. Mm-hmm. Okay. So my question is like, how can I have this many kit subscribers? Right. With a great open engagement rate. Yep. And not be here. Right. Well, but I don't, these people are not the decision makers that are having large groups join for the most part.

[00:32:09] Right.

[00:32:09] Nathan: A mistake that people make in sales, they reach out to. Executive.

[00:32:13] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:14] Nathan: And then say, Hey, here's the thing that I'd like you to buy. Right. Will you buy it?

[00:32:18] Rose: Uhhuh? And

[00:32:18] Nathan: that person is the busiest person in the organization

[00:32:21] Rose: Yes.

[00:32:22] Nathan: Is not actually the decision maker on whether or not to, to buy that thing Uhhuh.

[00:32:26] And it's just like, it goes absent nowhere. Right. It gets no response. And so the technique that was often used and still works is to reach out. You can research and find the person in the organization. Okay. I think that this like marketing manager or, you know, whoever Right. Is what I wanna get to, but, uh, that's hard to do.

[00:32:44] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:45] Nathan: And so what people do instead is they still reach out to the executive

[00:32:48] Rose: Yes.

[00:32:48] Nathan: But to say, Hey, who in the, in your organization is the right person to talk to?

[00:32:51] Rose: Mm.

[00:32:52] Nathan: And that person can now go, oh, thank God I can get this off. You know? Right. Francis in marketing is the right person. Right, exactly. And then what happens is they usually forward it Okay.

[00:33:02] And say, oh, Francis, here's yes. Here's this person. We, you know, we

[00:33:06] Rose: Right.

[00:33:07] Nathan: Which then has this authority of it came from

[00:33:10] Rose: uhhuh. Oh, I like that.

[00:33:11] Nathan: The, the exact

[00:33:12] Rose: right. Yes. Yes.

[00:33:13] Nathan: And so the, the question that I would wanna ask these 61,000 people on your email list

[00:33:19] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:33:20] Nathan: Is, Hey, who's the person in your organization that chooses your CE providers?

[00:33:24] Rose: I've never asked that. That's why I came here. Boom, I'm done.

[00:33:31] Nathan: Uh, because chances are, I mean, a bunch of people, a bunch of people will be like, I have no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. A a bunch more will say, or I could find out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. And then a whole collection will be like, oh, it's Sarah.

[00:33:45] Yeah, it's the Johnny. Right, right. Yes. It's this person. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and I just think like, that could be really, really interesting. I'm trying to think of what to write down for it.

[00:33:56] Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

[00:33:58] Nathan: We'll just say. Uh, I'm wondering, okay, so in this group Yeah. Is there something you could do for the ceu for those people who choose the providers?

[00:34:06] Rose: Yeah.

[00:34:08] Nathan: Do you have any training on how to decide what makes a good?

[00:34:13] Rose: Yeah, IDI don't, I mean, last year I tried to make, do like a leadership series mm-hmm. Of like courses. I feel like that was like four leaders in organizations. Okay. I mean, and that was kind of like, so-so yeah. That didn't really hit it, but we haven't, and we could, especially with speech therapists, we could do a course about that.

[00:34:33] We, we just haven't done that. That isn't, and I'm not sure that

[00:34:36] Nathan: there's enough of them. Yeah. Because if, if we're thinking from a sales process, if we can identify a hundred to 200 people Right. Who choose the CEU providers get on calls with half of those now. So we're 50 to a hundred. Right. And then we're closing a portion of those.

[00:34:55] Now we're closing. 25 to 50 out of that, we're actually driving pretty close to our revenue number.

[00:35:02] Rose: Yeah.

[00:35:02] Nathan: And you might not need any specialized training right. For that at all. 'cause we're still, it's a relatively few number of people. Yes. It's not like, oh, I need to convince 10,000 of these people.

[00:35:10] Rose: Oh, right.

[00:35:11] Nathan: So it's like, okay, now I need a webinar. Now I need,

[00:35:13] Rose: right.

[00:35:14] Nathan: You know, all of this. I think it's

[00:35:15] Rose: just getting to the, which on LinkedIn, you know, I do post on there every day. Mm-hmm. And I've been spending a lot more time on there since I've been focusing on group sales. Um, I think if I just put way more energy into B2B versus our social media content, which I'm still doing, but we have just a system for that now.

[00:35:35] Mm-hmm. I feel like I can use more of my brain power. On this and trying to get on calls with people because right. When I'm talking to people in my membership who are potentially could join as a group, I'm really just asking like, so what are you doing now for Cuus? And how is that, how is that working for you and, and what are the pain points?

[00:35:51] And because people know me and maybe they're already in my orbit, they don't think I'm, I'm trying to like sell them anything. Right. And really just fact finding because I'm, I'm curious, like, how can I make this better and how can I make it a no-brainer for their group?

[00:36:04] Nathan: Right. I love that I write down is just ask about frustrations.

[00:36:08] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:09] Nathan: That's my favorite thing in sales. Yes. Just say, how's that working? Anything that's frustrating you about it? And they're like,

[00:36:14] Rose: no, it's great.

[00:36:14] Nathan: Oh, you know what, actually, and then they just, they just dive right in.

[00:36:18] Rose: Right.

[00:36:19] Nathan: To what that is.

[00:36:20] Rose: Yes.

[00:36:20] Nathan: So there's also something about sales that's really interesting from your position.

[00:36:23] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:25] Nathan: Because when, I guess I had this when I went into kid. Um, if you go into sales as a content creator. The first thing that is, most content creators never go into sales. Right. Because they're like, why would I sell one-to-one right. When I could sell at scale through content? Mm-hmm. And that's true, but like, again, you have a bit of a conversion problem here, right?

[00:36:48] Um, and you have this opportunity to sell in bulk, right? And so it's like, well, 'cause I could sell a $250 a year deal, right? Or I could sell a $25,000 a year deal. Right. So that's why Yes. You know.

[00:36:59] Rose: Exactly.

[00:37:00] Nathan: Um, but I think what's interesting is you get to come in with credibility. Mm-hmm. Because you're the person who has a hundred thousand, you Instagram followers, right?

[00:37:10] Right. Who everyone looks to you as the expert have all the certifications, you know, you have all of this. Right. And so every outbound promotion, every LinkedIn request that you send mm-hmm. Like your, your chance of it being accepted mm-hmm.

[00:37:24] Rose: And

[00:37:24] Nathan: resulting in a conversation has gotta be come between two to five times.

[00:37:29] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:31] Nathan: Some random person off the street, right. Making that same request, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:37:34] Rose: Yes. I feel confident that when I'm on LinkedIn and I connect with somebody, maybe I looked up a company and now I'm like trying to see what people are there and my connections, or they're my second connections. I feel I feel really good about that.

[00:37:44] Mm-hmm. Because not a lot of people do what I do, so people do. They've seen me before somewhere. Right? Yeah. So

[00:37:51] Nathan: I guess what I, what I want is a process that's gonna get us to talking to a lot of decision makers, right? And someone who knows sales. Like I'm sure there are sales methodologies that we could dive into that, right?

[00:38:04] Uh, other people know that, that I don't, but I've always done it in just a very scrappy way, Uhhuh. And so just trying to say, Hey, how do I get to as many decision makers as possible? Mm-hmm. And just say dm. And if that's the circle that I wanna talk to, then I'm, I'm going, okay. So I've got my email list.

[00:38:20] I'm, I'm going from there. And so I'm doing this like, Hey, who's yours you provided right now? And I might ask this in my automation, I might ask it in a few other places. Right? Yeah. Um, and then the next thing is I would definitely, I mean, you have a big audience on right? Instagram, I would do an Instagram series once a month or something like that.

[00:38:42] Yeah. It's all about identifying the CCE providers.

[00:38:46] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:47] Nathan: And then how are we gonna, our conversations there. And then the other one that I think is the biggest opportunity is outbound. Mm-hmm. And this is really where you're gonna go identify the organizations that you wanna reach, right. And go from there.

[00:39:00] Mm-hmm. There's probably, how about it can be very time consuming.

[00:39:04] Rose: Mm-hmm. And a whole day on LinkedIn. Yeah. Just, yeah. Uhhuh,

[00:39:08] Nathan: there's three directions that you can go. Uh, option one is where you start out and you do all the prospecting yourself. Right. Um. It's good to do at first. 'cause you learn, is there an opportunity here?

[00:39:20] Yeah. Or all of that. Right. You're gonna quickly, it's not worth your time. Right. Right, right. Um, option number two is to hire someone to do specifically. So the role is called an SDR. Okay. A sales development.

[00:39:33] Rose: Okay.

[00:39:34] Nathan: And their whole job is to get conversation started mm-hmm. That they can bring you.

[00:39:39] Rose: Okay.

[00:39:40] Nathan: And they can either do it through your account Yes.

[00:39:43] As you Right. Or they could do it on their own. Yes. And then tee you up for conversation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And paying, you know, what you're most fit in. Right. And then the third one is you can use ai.

[00:39:53] Rose: Okay.

[00:39:53] Nathan: Where there is really like the AI tools, uh, using things like NAN AI platform. You can scrape LinkedIn, identify the types of people that you want to

[00:40:04] Rose: Oh,

[00:40:04] Nathan: to contact.

[00:40:05] Rose: Okay.

[00:40:06] Nathan: Uh, send them messages. Uhhuh, you know, you can go all the way through. Oh. Uh, find their email address like. You could identify, you know, the ideal decision maker. Right. And then have the AI go all the way.

[00:40:18] Rose: Yeah.

[00:40:19] Nathan: And you have the meeting for you. Okay. So really those are kind of the three mm-hmm. The three ways.

[00:40:24] Rose: Yeah.

[00:40:24] Nathan: Um, and you could iterate right through it, but any reactions to that?

[00:40:28] Rose: Yeah, no, I mean, I think that sounds great. And that's kinda what, even before our taping today, like kind of what I've been thinking about is more, I've been doing this myself, but just getting that started and spending more time there.

[00:40:42] Nathan: Yeah. What are some of the big, as you're, you've started to go into the outbound sales.

[00:40:46] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:47] Nathan: What are some of the biggest bottlenecks?

[00:40:48] Rose: I mean, I guess it's just. How to get that conversation started. Okay. A lot of these people that I think would be good candidates for the group sales are probably already in my first connection on LinkedIn.

[00:41:01] Nathan: Okay.

[00:41:02] Rose: It's just trying to get that conversation started reaching out. Okay. Yeah, because I don't have a sales background, so I am kind of like,

[00:41:13] Nathan: but we need to start conversations.

[00:41:15] Rose: Right.

[00:41:15] Nathan: That is a long word. Uh, okay. So we need to start conversations. What's, what's the bottom line could start a conversation.

[00:41:21] Like what,

[00:41:23] Rose: I guess I just don't have a lot of experience with that. Those first initial contacts. I mean, I started that kind of last week, like looking at people if they have something that I think they'd be a good fit for in this circle, um, saying like, Hey, you know, this looks really cool that you're doing this role.

[00:41:37] I'd love to hear more about that. Do you wanna hop on a call? Yeah. And then I send them my savvy Cal or whatever I'm using. Um, and so I have started doing some of that because what I have found is that when people get on a call with me, either through a webinar or something like this. It's usually really positive.

[00:41:53] Yeah. It usually goes in my direction, which would be bringing them into the membership.

[00:41:58] Nathan: Yeah. Do you have a, like, do you track a close rate for your calls? That's a great question.

[00:42:03] Rose: I have

[00:42:03] Nathan: not

[00:42:03] Rose: had

[00:42:03] Nathan: enough calls to track a close rate. Okay. How many calls do you think you've had,

[00:42:06] Rose: like ever?

[00:42:08] Nathan: Uh, recently, I just recently, let's say in the last period minutes

[00:42:11] Rose: I just started.

[00:42:11] Okay. I have like three scheduled for next week. Okay.

[00:42:13] Nathan: All right. So we're brand new.

[00:42:15] Rose: Yes.

[00:42:15] Nathan: I mean, that's exciting. There's a lot of cancer here.

[00:42:17] Rose: Yes.

[00:42:18] Nathan: So starting conversations, I think having a reason to contact someone right, is that's something that I struggle with Uhhuh because I'm like, uh, I'm DMing you because honestly, I just, I want you to be a customer of fit into migrate over.

[00:42:29] Can we just start? Right, right. Yeah, exactly. But you're like, well, now I'm just se selling from the beginning. Right. And so is there a conversation starter that you provide value upfront?

[00:42:43] Rose: I have been in some of these where I've been messaging people and setting up a couple of the calls. I just say something like, I put in this that I'm a speech therapist in BCBA.

[00:42:53] Mm-hmm. You know, if you'd wanna connect on how I could help your teams bridge that gap or work on collaboration or talk about communication, you know, I'd love to hop on a call, something like that. Because when I say that I'm an S-L-P-B-C-B-A, 'cause there's fewer than 500 people in the world, people in my niche, they either like that or they don't.

[00:43:10] But the people that like it are really excited about that. Yeah. So they are like, wow, okay. Yeah. Let's talk.

[00:43:16] Nathan: Yeah. So I mean, something that I like about that is that it narrows the group, um, really quickly.

[00:43:24] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:25] Nathan: Right? Yes. Because if someone's like, oh, I need that.

[00:43:26] Rose: Right.

[00:43:27] Nathan: And they're going to be like, no thanks,

[00:43:28] Rose: right?

[00:43:28] Nathan: And you're like, perfect.

[00:43:30] Rose: Yes, yes. Unsubscribe, I don't need you anymore. Yes, absolutely.

[00:43:34] Nathan: Uh, okay. So that's one conversation starter. Mm-hmm. Is just that direct outreach. Right. What I'm wondering if there's a resource that these people would want. Yeah. Like something. So for Kit, we're really targeting authors lately.

[00:43:48] Okay. And we have so many of these like nonfiction authors and thought leaders platform.

[00:43:52] Rose: Yeah.

[00:43:54] Nathan: And you know, you've got, I dunno, like James Clear and Ryan Holiday, right. Like all these people who just dominate the New Times list. Right. And so as I'm reaching out to another author, I can take the approach and I often do of like, look, we've got all these people on the platform.

[00:44:08] Right. I'd love to help you grow your newsletter in the same way. Yeah. And that works pretty well. One that I'm trying is, uh, we worked with James Clear to put together this flywheel napping out, we call it James Clear's five star Amazon review flywheel.

[00:44:21] Rose: Okay.

[00:44:22] Nathan: And it's just mapping that out.

[00:44:23] Rose: Oh, okay.

[00:44:24] Nathan: And so I just say, Hey, we help all these people grow their newsletters.

[00:44:27] One we've helped James with is drive a bunch of um, uh, reviews for his book through this flywheel. Do you want me to send it to you? And the response rate on that is quite high, I'm sure.

[00:44:39] Rose: Yeah.

[00:44:39] Nathan: And so I'm wondering, is there something like that that you create

[00:44:42] Rose: Oh

[00:44:42] Nathan: yeah. That would make that, you know, it's a lead magnet basically, right?

[00:44:45] Rose: Yes.

[00:44:45] Nathan: But the lead magnet that you're getting through

[00:44:47] Rose: Yeah. Outbound, right? Absolutely. Yeah. That's tough. That would be for these decision makers.

[00:44:53] Nathan: Yeah. What do they want?

[00:44:55] Rose: Yeah, they wanna just make sure everybody has all their CEUs. They wanna make sure that speech therapists and BCBAs get along. Uh, so I actually do have a course that I started last year.

[00:45:07] I did it as a live course. Mm-hmm. And then we did it every single month as a live course. 'cause people liked it and we ran Facebook ads to it. It was doing so well because it's a hot topic that in April we started running ads every single day to it as a recorded course. And that's been really popular.

[00:45:21] So I wonder if something like that, that's like a more of a hot topic to show, like I'm current, both speech therapists and B CBAs can get CEUs on this. Would that be something that you send to them for free?

[00:45:32] Nathan: Do you charge for it right now?

[00:45:34] Rose: Well, how we have it set up is do, anybody can view the webinar, but then they can either purchase CEOs by joining the membership or by purchasing a $25 CEU.

[00:45:42] Because the thing is, all speech therapists and all BCBAs need ethics, and that sounds like a snoozefest, but somebody actually just gave me a review that my course was not a snoozefest, so I thought that was great. Um, and so that is something that every single person has to have. Right. So why not choose something that is exciting Yeah.

[00:46:01] In the field. Mm-hmm.

[00:46:02] Nathan: Yeah, that makes sense. I'm wondering if you could do even something as simple as a short guide or Okay. On, you know, getting SLPs and BCBAs to coexist well in the organization. Yeah, yeah. If that's a true pain point for your ideal, right? It is. Yes. Then is there a one page

[00:46:23] Rose: right,

[00:46:24] Nathan: uh, well designed uhhuh guide that you have, or four pages that that's, this is how you do it with.

[00:46:31] Rose: And, you know, we do have something right now is like collaborative phrases.

[00:46:34] Nathan: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:35] Rose: And so that is something I do have as a single, uh, lead magnet, but I haven't really used it in this way to be sharing it that way.

[00:46:43] Nathan: I would try it. Yeah. And just say, because then it just shows that you understand them, right?

[00:46:47] Yes. And if someone's interested in that, then they're like, they're already down on your path. Right? Yeah. And so for conversation starters, you know, I would go direct. Mm-hmm. That often works really well.

[00:46:58] Rose: Yep.

[00:46:59] Nathan: And then, you know, another one is lead magnets. Right. And so that's, that's offering something to them.

[00:47:06] Rose: Right.

[00:47:07] Nathan: And uh, and you can test a few different

[00:47:11] Rose: Yeah.

[00:47:12] Nathan: But really, I feel like you're just gonna need a lot more volume

[00:47:17] Rose: mm-hmm. Of this.

[00:47:18] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Of getting Right. You know, we need to set a goal. Right. We need a goal, we need a way to measure it. Right. You know, all of those things. Right. Actually, you know, what I'm thinking about right now is.

[00:47:30] If there's a way to put this in flywheel form, because flywheels are really easy, easy to measure, right. And to see, okay, this is the thing that we're gonna do again. Right? And then you're also really good at automating and, um, putting systems in place in your business. Mm-hmm. Right? So I'm wondering like, what is the, the outbound sales flywheel

[00:47:51] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:47:52] Nathan: That we could put in place, right? So maybe if we map that out. Okay. I'm all over the place, but we'll go right here. Uh, um, I mean, it's gonna start with identifying leads, right? Uh, you know, we've got outreach and then a call, um, from the call. Think you're at the decision, like what's the sales cycle look like?

[00:48:14] Do they decide in hours, months? I think a month. Okay.

[00:48:19] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:20] Nathan: Okay. That's pretty good. So then the follow up as a non-sales person mm-hmm. Who had to learn sales. Yes. The follow up was the hardest part. Right. I was like, I, I was so bad at it.

[00:48:30] Rose: I do have that in my Basecamp as, uh Yeah. Fortunes and follow up, right?

[00:48:34] Nathan: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and then have you gotten like these decision makers? Yes. Do they talk to each other at other organizations or not really? Uh,

[00:48:46] Rose: maybe not.

[00:48:47] Nathan: Okay.

[00:48:48] Rose: I mean, it's not like there's this little group of them, you know what I mean? They're not, and they all hang

[00:48:51] Nathan: out together. It may not

[00:48:52] Rose: all be, yeah.

[00:48:53] It may not be as cohesive as that. Right. I mean, it would be, I'm updating my website homepage right now to reflect the membership, so it would be nice to maybe have some of these larger groups that have joined reflected in testimonials. Yes. So things like that, that can help with the conversion rate.

[00:49:08] Nathan: Yeah.

[00:49:08] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:08] Nathan: What I'm really getting at is, is there something, so if we go outreach call. Um, my flywheel is going to get very oblong here. Uh, but then if we're into the close, uh, and then what I wanna, what I want is a loop closer right here.

[00:49:27] Rose: Right?

[00:49:27] Nathan: Where I want, where the more sales that I make,

[00:49:31] Rose: right,

[00:49:31] Nathan: the more leads get identified.

[00:49:34] Rose: Okay? Yes.

[00:49:34] Nathan: Because now I've completed my flywheel and the more leads I have identified, I can get outreach to them. I can get a call, right? And this, this starts out very slow and then builds a lot of momentum as we go. Right? And so a common loop closer Uhhuh is a referral.

[00:49:48] Rose: Okay?

[00:49:49] Nathan: This is the one that, that I used a lot when I was building kit

[00:49:51] Rose: Yeah.

[00:49:52] Nathan: Was I said, alright, you know, we would. Do the outreach, get on a call and follow up. Uhhuh, uh, close the deal, do a migration. Right. Bring them over, do all that work. Yes. Make sure they're really happy. And then it's a, Hey, do you know other creators that I could talk to? Right. And they'd be like, uh, you know, actually my friend Sarah.

[00:50:10] Okay. You know, and then Yeah. Right. Um, and then that, that helped me identify more and Right. Go on from there. And so that's what I'm trying to find. Uhhuh referral is a common loop closer. Another one is a reinvestment. Like let's say that we take the profits that we made. Yes. We spend it in Facebook ads to get in front of more people.

[00:50:28] Right. Right. A reinvestment is another loop, closing step. Right. But does anything come to mind where you're like, okay, how, here's how getting more sales could help me, right. Get new leads?

[00:50:39] Rose: Well, no, I mean, I do think, I've never just asked my audience that. Mm-hmm. Like once somebody. Buy something, asking them, do you know anybody else who would be interested in this?

[00:50:49] I was actually just on a call for therapy last week, um, with a new clinic we're onboarding and she was like, oh yeah, my friend actually is looking for a speech therapist too. Okay. Oh, great. So I see how easy that was. And I didn't even have to ask, but I've never like done that direct ask like that.

[00:51:06] Nathan: I guess what I'm like, I could see it working definitely in the B2C space Yeah.

[00:51:10] Or that sort of thing. What I'm trying to get to is like, this is a very specific type of person, right? Right. Because we want, you know, we're identifying the decision makers. Mm-hmm. And, and so I'm like, okay, how do we find, how do we get to more of them? Right. Do they, what role do they have in the clinic?

[00:51:32] Are they at schools as well?

[00:51:34] Rose: It could be at schools. Okay. Yes. We've identified schools too, like larger schools and organizations. Those could be a. Special education directors, each therapists that are head of departments. And it really just depends on how large the business is.

[00:51:48] Nathan: Right.

[00:51:48] Rose: It could be somebody that's a training specialist and maybe they have their own in-house training, but they wanna have something for everybody, right.

[00:51:56] That is gonna support that person in their role as the organization grows. Yeah. Okay. So it really depends on the size of the organization.

[00:52:04] Nathan: Then we'll come back to that. One of the, another possible loop closer mm-hmm. Is like learning and analysis.

[00:52:09] Rose: Okay.

[00:52:10] Nathan: And so the way that if we chose this loop closer, and we might try on different

[00:52:14] Rose: ones.

[00:52:14] Okay.

[00:52:15] Nathan: Uh, 'cause Right, right now we've made a linear process that I drew in a flywheel. And it's not a real flywheel until we, a loop closer, but a third category of loop closers. Okay. And so that would be where we're saying, all right, we closed another deal.

[00:52:28] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:28] Nathan: We're now at three group sales that we've sold.

[00:52:31] Right. Or we've, we're at 11.

[00:52:32] Rose: Yes. And so we say,

[00:52:33] Nathan: Hey, what did we learn from this deal?

[00:52:35] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:36] Nathan: And who, and we've got a series of questions through, right. Based on the closing this and what we learned, who else could we go after? Yes. How could we improve our outreach? How could we,

[00:52:45] Rose: right.

[00:52:46] Nathan: You know, all this, but it's like, oh, we just, the first two group sales were with clinics.

[00:52:50] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:50] Nathan: This third one was with a school.

[00:52:52] Rose: Right.

[00:52:53] Nathan: Okay. Who are other schools like them? Right. And we bring those learnings through into

[00:52:58] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:52:59] Nathan: Identifying more prospects, doing outreach. Yes. And going from there.

[00:53:03] Rose: Okay.

[00:53:03] Nathan: And so you might start with that as the loop closer.

[00:53:06] Rose: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:53:07] Nathan: And kind of test different things.

[00:53:08] Right. Um, and then kind of iterate.

[00:53:12] Rose: Yeah. I love that.

[00:53:13] Nathan: Okay. Lemme write that down. Uh, for now. So we have learned in this step. All right, so our flywheel here is going from identifying to outreach, call, follow up, close and learn. And so what you'll do here is you're gonna make a spreadsheet, right? That tracks the numbers in this.

[00:53:34] Yes. And it's pretty simple. What you're gonna do is, you know, if we have, um, well first we decide how often do we wanna measure this, right. And I would measure, so usually people go daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly. Okay. Really it's like weekly or monthly. Yeah. Um, in this case, maybe you'll eventually go to monthly.

[00:53:57] I would do weekly,

[00:53:58] Rose: yes.

[00:53:59] Nathan: Because it's really cool. It seems like it's, it's new. Yeah. We wanna learn. Yes. Imagine if we were learning on a monthly cadence. Like

[00:54:04] Rose: it's true.

[00:54:05] Nathan: So, yeah.

[00:54:05] Rose: No, that doesn't work. No, no, no.

[00:54:08] Nathan: Um, so our cadence is going to be, uh, weekly. And so what you'll just do is have the steps of your flywheel, like listed down here.

[00:54:19] Then your weeks listed across the top. Right. And so then as we go through every week, you're just going to say, okay, how many leads did we identify? Right. And early on, you know, it's like four, right? Right. How many people did we reach out to? Also four. You know? Right, right, right. And then as you go through and that turned into two calls.

[00:54:40] Right. And then, you know, uh, and then we had to follow up with one more, and then we closed one, and then you're just gonna have a comment box. Right. And, uh, in this Right, we're just adding the notes of what we learned that week. Right. Right. And what I love about this approach is you can see at a glance how your numbers change.

[00:55:02] Mm-hmm. And you would start to see problems as they build up.

[00:55:05] Rose: Yeah.

[00:55:06] Nathan: So let's say that, you know, week seven mm-hmm. Like, oh, I didn't make any sales. Right. Why is that? Oh, we actually, in week six, we didn't really have any calls, right. Within week four, we actually, oh, I actually totally stopped doing follow up because my, uh, SDR who's doing the development right.

[00:55:23] Stop. You know, like, uh, I ended up letting 'em go. Right. You know, I'll do it myself. Right,

[00:55:28] Rose: right,

[00:55:28] Nathan: right. And so you can track those, those trends.

[00:55:30] Rose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And go from there. Yeah.

[00:55:33] Nathan: And so then this gives you one set of conversations to do, or one, one set of activities, right. To do every single week. Yes. And you can track and see what works.

[00:55:40] Rose: Yes. I love that. Yeah.

[00:55:43] Nathan: Mm-hmm. Um, and then the other thing that we can do is we can look and see how each step is performing, right? And so let's say, for example, we're really struggling to identify more leads, right? Then we're gonna come back to this part where we're like, okay, what are our avenues for identifying leads?

[00:55:57] Right? I'm gonna tweak that automation in my email.

[00:56:01] Rose: Yes.

[00:56:02] Nathan: The hand raiser uhhuh is better.

[00:56:05] Rose: Yes.

[00:56:06] Nathan: So that I have more people automatically coming in.

[00:56:08] Rose: Yeah.

[00:56:09] Nathan: Um, or I'm going to tweak my outbound. Mm-hmm. You know, that kind of thing.

[00:56:14] Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

[00:56:16] Nathan: You might also, and we're tracking, identifying leads. We might have, like, I might track the three different lead sources.

[00:56:25] Okay. Individually, uhhuh, um, just to see what's working, what's, yeah. '

[00:56:30] Rose: cause this is just totally untapped here. I have never really asked my email list about their CE provider. Yeah. I just have not done that. I mean, that could be so easy to put in a funnel.

[00:56:40] Nathan: Yeah. And I might take a small section of the audience Yeah.

[00:56:44] And start with the first. Right. And test a few questions and see how that goes and, and see. Yeah. And when I say a small section, you, it could be like a. 5,000.

[00:56:52] Rose: Right. Right. Because that's, I got a lot to work with there. You're like, oh, let's carve

[00:56:56] Nathan: off only 10%, 6,400 people. Yes.

[00:56:59] Rose: Right. Yeah.

[00:56:59] Nathan: Um, that's cool. And I think that that'd be really, really interesting.

[00:57:03] Alright, so we've talked through a lot of different things. Got a clear map of where your business is at now. Yes. Where you're thinking double down on with the membership.

[00:57:10] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:11] Nathan: We've got notes on what would have to be true. You're like, your market's big enough, uh, ideas of where at leads come down, come through, and the flywheel.

[00:57:18] Uh, do you wanna sit down and kind of recap Yeah. Where we're at?

[00:57:20] Rose: Yeah, let's do it.

[00:57:21] Nathan: All right. So I'm, I'm curious, as you look up at the board, what are the things that stand out that are exciting and, and then maybe on the other side, if there's any questions that you have.

[00:57:32] Rose: No, I love the idea of really looking at the decision makers.

[00:57:36] I've just started doing that in the past week. Um, and, but I, I have stuff that would be valuable for them, but I just haven't utilized it in that. That way. And I think the idea of just starting those conversations, because you're right, when I reach out to somebody on LinkedIn, they might have seen me speak somewhere or listened to my podcast.

[00:57:58] And so it's already like a touch point, right? So I am really positively reinforced on LinkedIn because I don't get nos a lot of times when I reach out or wanna connect with somebody. So I think just putting that into a system and spending more of my energy there. Mm-hmm. Versus I'm not gonna stop making content for Instagram.

[00:58:15] Don't worry anybody. But I think, wow, my business could really, that part of my business could really grow if that's where I put my energy. And I haven't done that before.

[00:58:26] Nathan: Yeah. I think what I'm excited about is you having. Set, uh, system. Mm-hmm. That's pretty simple. Right. But that you can do and iterate on, um, continually.

[00:58:35] Yes. And then you'll be able to see the parts of it that you can automate or hire someone mm-hmm. To fill in. Yeah. Like you doing outbound initially I think is gonna be really, really important. Yes. Because you're just gonna have this better map. Mm-hmm. Someone else is gonna be like, ah, this person's like a good context.

[00:58:49] And you're like, no, no, no, they're not. Why? Oh, okay. Let me explain why.

[00:58:53] Rose: Right.

[00:58:54] Nathan: You know, or here's why something that you would skip over mm-hmm. Is actually really great. Right. You're gonna have this industry intuition and knowledge

[00:59:01] Rose: mm-hmm.

[00:59:01] Nathan: That someone else is just not gonna have. Right. And then you're also gonna be able to find out, hey, what actually works from conversation starters.

[00:59:07] Rose: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:07] Nathan: You know, you're, you're going to have, try direct, try two of these different kind of lead magnet ideas mm-hmm. And you're just gonna learn so much faster. Yes. But it's in a system where you'll be able to scale it when you say, oh, I'm gonna replace mm-hmm. These steps from there.

[00:59:24] Rose: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:26] Nathan: One of the thing that I would make sure to do.

[00:59:27] Is to track the friction of each step in the flywheel. Mm-hmm. And so this is just a really simple thing of a one to five score. And I just say like, how difficult did this feel? I'm like, outreach was such a pain this week because I got through, you know, I, I went through all of my easy leads that were right in front of me.

[00:59:44] Yes. And now I had to like actually grind it out to get them. And if you see that friction score be high a few weeks in a row, uhhuh, then you're like, okay, when it's time to work on automation or improving that, like I'm gonna focus on the step that has, has the highest friction score. Okay.

[00:59:59] Rose: Yeah.

[01:00:00] Nathan: And I think that can make

[01:00:02] Rose: mm-hmm.

[01:00:02] Nathan: A big difference and it'll make it really enjoyable.

[01:00:04] Rose: Yes. Yeah.

[01:00:05] Nathan: All right. So I'm really curious just to contrast how you were feeling when you came in and we started recording versus how you're feeling now about any clarity that you have.

[01:00:13] Rose: Yeah. I mean, I think just having a framework for how to grow that part of my business mm-hmm.

[01:00:18] Is exciting. So I feel like I'm ready to get to work and see. What we can do with that.

[01:00:24] Nathan: Yeah, that sounds good. I think it's just gonna take some deliberate execution from here. Mm-hmm. But the last note that I wanna leave you on is just as you go into direct sales, you have such a huge advantage because you have this brand and people wanna meet you and they wanna connect with you.

[01:00:39] And so you've got a ton of clarity on which way to grow the business. Like which, you know, of all the things you're doing. Mm-hmm. Like this is the one that you can build into the skyscraper, right. And then you have all of the credibility, you've got the audience already. Uh, and I think it's gonna go really, really well.

[01:00:54] Rose: Thanks.

[01:00:54] Nathan: All right. Thanks so much for coming on. Where should people go to follow you and all of your work?

[01:00:59] Rose: Absolutely. Come visit me@www.abaspeech.org and over on Instagram ABA speech by Rose.

[01:01:05] Nathan: Perfect. Thank you.

[01:01:06] Rose: Thanks.

[01:01:07] Nathan: If you enjoyed this episode, go to YouTube and search the Nathan Barry Show. Then hit subscribe and make sure to like the video and drop a comment.

[01:01:15] I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were, and also just who else do you think we should have on the show? Thank you so much for listening.